Replacing the water pump: remove cam gears??

I'm just getting started on my adventure to replace the timing belt in my new-to-me 2007 Aveo (85k miles). Since no one seems to have the Haynes or Chilton for this (stupid me! I thought it would have been published and readily available!), I've been reading the threads here over and over.

One item I'm not sure about it removing the water pump to replace it. (I bought a kit that came with a new one. Previous experience with my Toyota Camry tells me it's cheaper to replace the pump now than go back in there later.) I'm reading that removing the inner plastic cover makes removing the pump easier. But to do this, you have to remove the gears off the cam shafts??

I also bought the tool that's supposed to hold the cam gears in position so they don't shift after removing the timing belt. But if I have to remove the gears, then this tool is useless, yes?? And without the gears attached how *do* you keep the cams from moving??

Obviously, I'm not that far into the repair yet, so I have no visual for this. I'm just trying to do the next step correctly, instead of correcting the last step!

Any help is greatly appreciated!
Ed

As long as you can remove the inner plastic shield I don't see why the gears would have to be removed. Here is a pic from when I swapped an 07 engine into my 05. The water pump is the small pulley on the left side.

From thread: http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f103/...tml#post128492

http://aveoforum.com/pictures/aveo022.JPG

Thanks for the pic, Daox. I do remember previously reading your thread. The cover looks like it will slip right out from underneath the pulleys. Is that correct?

From that picture, there appears to be only one bolt holding the cover?? (Just to the right of the water pump in the picture.) Or would there be another bolt if the heads were on?

Ed

PS - I was also just kind of wondering if that cover might survive being separated into upper and lower?

Inspecting a bit more (after a good night's sleep -- best tool in the box!!), it looks like there's three bolts holding that inner cover on.

The easy one at the bottom:
Attachment 10237

One behind the left cam gear:
Attachment 10238

And one behind the right cam gear:
Attachment 10239

(Edit: found another one on the lower right)
Attachment 10240

The left bolt is the booger - you can only reach it by rotating the cam gear so one of the holes lines up with the bolt so you can get a socket on it. Or you *might* be able to get a crow's foot on it. If I rotate the gear around, I'll have to remark the timing belt - not a big deal; just wish I'd seen this coming first.

But then there's still the question of the cover slipping out from under the cam gears, as your picture suggests? Or do the gears still have to come off??

Which is more hassle?
Taking off the inner cover?
Or bending the cover to remove the pump?

Ed

Okay - proceeded cautiously. Bending the cover has worked for most others, so there is no reason (other than Murphy!) why it should not work for me.

And it did go okay. I heard ominous pre-cracking noises from up by the cam gears, and it took some fiddling to get the pump out. But it was easily done in about 10 minutes (for me and *my* water pump) with holding the cover with one hand and juggling the pump with the other. And the new one slid in easy too.

Still thinking about making that one cover into two!
Ed

Great to hear you got it replaced Ed!

yeah that sucks. I had issues trying to fit my tool into the bolt holes behind the cam gears. I had to take mine off to get to them. sigh.

So .....
Right below the gears is a ridge in the cover.
Wonder what would happen if that cover separated just above or below that?

Of course, if one still remembers the bolt problem when the next time comes,
one can always simply remove the left side bolt before locking the cams in place.

(Note to self, because I'm sure to come searching before I try this again!!)
Ed

You said you had 85k on the engine . Did you replace the belt & pulleys , also ? While you had things apart ?

By the way , there are several videos on this on YouTube , that others may find helpful .

I saw one video on a car that had the belt and pulleys intact . The owner rotated the crankshaft until all the timing marks were where they should be . He took something like white out and painted the 3 marks on the belt and sprockets , white .

He was also changing the belt . Then he put the new belt and the old belt together & marked the new belt in white . When he put the new belt on , he aligned the white marks on the sprockets & the new belt .

From what I see on our 2015 1.8l sonic , the water pump on it is driven by the serpentine belt . So , when the time comes to do the belt & pulleys , I will not have to mess with the water pump . :-)

God bless
Wyr

I use the method that WyrTwister just mentioned. I bent the plastic cover to change the water pump on my first timing belt change in 2010. I just changed it again last weekend, but did not bother changing the water pump. This is strictly personal preference, but I am going to remove the camshaft pulleys next time, because that would have been quicker than the hour I spent fiddling around trying to get the water pump in without cracking anything.

The cam lockdown tool is great to have when you put the timing belt back on. The cam pulleys might not align exactly due to cylinder compression, so sometimes it's hard to get the timing belt on and make sure everything matches with the whiteout marks. The lockdown tool will keep them from turning one or two teeth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WyrTwister

*snip*

From what I see on our 2015 1.8l sonic , the water pump on it is driven by the serpentine belt . So , when the time comes to do the belt & pulleys , I will not have to mess with the water pump . :-)

God bless
Wyr

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You may want to reconsider skipping the water pump at the timing belt change. If the design is like the 1.6L Ecotech in the 2009 Aveo, you will have to remove the motor mount to get access to the pump. The motor mount would already be off for the timing belt change (along with the serpentine belt) so it would not be that much extra work to have it done at the same time.

I did not invent the method using the white out . And I have not changed the belt on our 1.8l Sonic , yet . We have about 14,000 miles on it ( too many ) since last June .

Would some one post a link to the vendor of the tool that holds the cam sprockets , please ?

From what I read the 1.4l turbo engine has a timing chain instead of the belt . Other than that , I am just as glad ours is the naturally aspirated 1.8l .

God bless
Wyr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EAD15

You may want to reconsider skipping the water pump at the timing belt change. If the design is like the 1.6L Ecotech in the 2009 Aveo, you will have to remove the motor mount to get access to the pump. The motor mount would already be off for the timing belt change (along with the serpentine belt) so it would not be that much extra work to have it done at the same time.

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Will have to look to verify . I am pretty sure the 1.6l Aveo is a different engine than our 1.8l Sonic . Best I remember , the water pump in not inside those plastic covers where the timing belt and pulleys live ?

In which case , I would be inclined to only change the water pump when it started having problems .

God bless
Wyr

The 1.6L Ecotech water pump is not under the plastic covers. It is driven off the regular serpentine belt (and has a pulley on it to drive the power steering pump). But the design on the 09 means that you have to support the engine and remove the motor mount to get access to the water pump regardless. Since you have everything but the pulleys out of the way there when doing a timing belt, it doesn't make sense not to change the pump at the same time (especially if you are paying a mechanic to do it).

You might save the cost of the part and 1 hour labor by skipping it. If it leaks/breaks before your next timing belt change though, you just cost yourself more than you saved. Again, I can only speak for the 09 Aveos.

You may be correct ? Not sure . Will need to look when the sun comes up . Will try to take a photo .

I have noticed that I can buy the kit with belt , pulley and tensioner . Or I can buy the same kit with the water pump also .

Do the math & the water pump adds $ 32.90 for the Gates brand at RockAuto.com . The Gates water pump , buy itself is $ 37.89 . So , not a huge savings . ( These numbers do not include freight . )

God bless
Wyr

From what I can see , there is a water pump housing that somehow bolts to the engine . The actual part that is usually replaced is the round " insert " , attached to the housing with " reverse Torex " bolts / screws .

Looks like the the fasteners holding the pulley would need to be loosened , serpentine belt remove ( and perhaps replaced ) and the reverse Torex fasteners removed . Remove the water pump , draining coolant into a drain pan . Install the new water pump and o-ring / gasket . Install the reverse Torex fasteners , pulley , pulley fasteners . Install the serpentine belt & finish tightening the pulley fasteners .

Fill the cooling system and burp it .

Looks to me like the water pump housing can remain in place ?

God bless
WyrAttachment 10271Attachment 10272Attachment 10273Attachment 10274Attachment 10275

I replaced the timing belt, water pump, idler, and tensioner.
The white marker came in handy (actually I used my grandkid's white crayon!).
I could have lied it all up, removed the belt and let the cams rotate slightly, then pull the gears.
Maybe next time. And then I'll figure out how to make one cover into two! :8>)

Ed

Oh by the way when changing the water pump if you round off the Allen head that hold it in like I did on my 06 aveo dont worry lol just get them out using a remover kit for that problem... then I used the three 10mm bolts that hold the cold air intake box to the body they thread in perfect all I did was cut them in half and popped em right in works perfect and in the future itll be easier to replace the timing belt because instead of a alan head bolt you have a normal 10mm bolt