Odd Tire Noise.....Told I Need new Tires. SOLVED! (wheel bearings)

[FlaAveo5]

Hey. Sorry this is SO long......Ok. got my coolant issue pinned down. Now I have a freaking tire noise that is just annoying. I bought a new set of Falkens 2 years ago, only have 3K miles on them now in 2 years. No problem with them, great tires, good ride, wearing nice and even! A miracle!

I go to Tires Plus every few months for rotation/balance. And front end alignment, I bought the 'road hazard warranty', when I bought the set of tires there, so its 'free' to do now.

Anyway. I had them rotated/balanced 2 months ago, at Tires Plus, and for like the last month or so, I have noticed, I THINK, the front drivers side tire, is making like a low 'humming' noise, (like when you go over a bridge that has a metal middle), the part that goes up. Kind of that sound. The alignment is perfect, it doesn't shake, the tires are wearing perfectly, (a miracle on this car!) 3rd set in 33K miles!

So Tires Plus told me yesterday that I need new tires!!! I flipped out! I told this dolt, that 'I bought them here 2 years ago, maybe 2K miles ago, it's 3K miles, WOW!. They WERE quite till I had the rotation/balance done two months ago THERE, and you want me to buy a new set of tires?!!!' What about the 50K mile warranty on the tires? I have the rotation and balance done like every 4 months, front end alignment done 2 times a year, no flats, I dont go racing on them, I drive like an old woman to TRY and get 19MPG! He agrees with me, and says that the tires are in fine shape, but the amount of tire wear is at the point that road noise is starting to come into the cabin. I told him I know the road noise, I like it. I like a 'Mercedes hard ride', (hey they have a nice firm ride on nice hard Michelins,) but have learned to keep THESE tires at the low soft pressure they insist on, for the warranty to stay good. But I dont mind road noise, I am use to it. The car doesn't have tons of sound insulation...but I dont need new tires!

So he is saying it is just the way the car is, and the type of tires, and I said these are not cheap Chinese ones, I bought them when I HAD money, and yOU told me it was this set, or Primewells...at the time I was putting a new set on. That was my choice. These are 'high performance' tires, I know. Not 'touring tires', like I wanted. But this noise is just annoying. IF it were some mechanical problem, i would think they would say , 'you need wheel bearings, or CV joints, or whatever'...but he didnt bring up any mechanical problem. He said the ties are wearing evenly and there is no problem with them, it is just the car, and the compound the tires are made out of. That THIS car rides quiet to a certain point of tire wear, and then it will make this humming noise. Then he tries to sell me a set of Firestones at half off, because I pitched a fit, that at 3K miles and 2 years, I dont need new tires!!!, so it was $325 out the door with the full road hazard warranty, the lifetime alignment all the extras included. So..what the hell is going on?

Anyone else have this issue? I have gone through 3 sets of cheap tires, the originals, a WalMart set, for under $250, and when I could afford a GOOD set, I bought these. Like I said, they had 2 sets of tires that fit the car. These and the Primewells, and those are just to cheap,and Chinese!

So...I can believe that the car is making this noise, at this point in time, with these tires, just because it is the car and the tire combo. There is nothing wrong with the tires, if I want to put up with listening to the noise i'm ok, not going to get a blow out or anything. I've tried to listen to ' tire Humming' on You Tube' , and those noises are WAY louder and different than mine. And those are all wheel bearings that are worn out.

That cant be the problem. Can it? I had the rear ones repacked/replaced over a year ago, but for the front to start to make this noise right after they did the rotation and balance, (I just kept putting it off, till I could go get it looked at), and this front tire didn't/doesn't have ANY of those tire weights on them. The guy insists that the tire is so well balanced it doesn't need any weights to balance it. THATS why i went there, thinking they forgot to put weights on it to balance it.

But it doesnt shake or vibrate. So...any ideas? Could it just be that Aveos make this noise with most any tire, except like 'touring tires' or top line Michelins or Firestones? , and at a certain amount of tire wear is gone. And that any 'high performance' tire will cause this sound, eventually. OR what else could it be??? Thanks guys.

[petrified.rabbit]

In my opinion, if it didn't make noise when new, it should not make noise at all. You should be able to run a tire that is balanced until it is smooth and not feel it, or hear it. But based on what you say, the tire noise started over a month after the rotation, so I can't say it was the rotation. Tires wear different front and rear, rotating them not often enough causes flat spots, cupping, and such that will be pronounced with a tire rotation, when it was not there before. I once swapped the front tires only, and had a van that drove straight need you to hold the wheel almost an 1/8 turn to stay straight, until i swapped the tires back.

If it was not for the month since rotation, I would say just don't rotated them you didn't do it soon enough, bit that will void your warranty. I can say this: I have never had a set of tires last over 10,000 miles. Regardless of cost, driving style, or tire. Now I have never bought a tire in the 500 tread wear range. Even driving all highway at 100 miles round trip a day, I was buying tires twice a year. Heck my tires that came on the aveo factory were bald in 3000 miles.

Heres my opinion for you, look that the tread, does it appear even? Measure the depth, is it even across the tire, across the set of 4? If you do not see any cord on the tire, run your hand around the tire, if the tread feels like it goes up and down like a saw blade would, that is either feathering or cupping. That is typically what causes tire noise. Flat spots in the middle (rear tires most commonly) will then feather or cup if you put them on the front. A broken belt will feel like a bulge, and might be visible as well, this could be on the side or in the tread.

Your tires sound like they failed, if you have a warranty for mileage, they should be prorated. If you are buying the factory 185/60r14 tires still, I would go with a ohtsu for the price:

Tire Details - Discount Tire Direct

(I'm sorry, I wrote this last night and lost my train of thought. So I am posting it, but i might sound unfinished.)

[MetroMPG]

the front drivers side tire, is making like a low 'humming' noise,

You could also swap the front wheels from L to R to see if the noise moves to the other side. That may rule out the wheel bearing.

[FlaAveo5]

They said that with the tire wearing be at whatever microscopic measurement you use for tire wear...'2/32','4/34th's'...whatever measurement it is at now, he said at this measurement it is going to make this noise with this car and this tire combination.
All i can say is the tires are wearing evenly,no cupping or anything like that. All balanced and in alignment. As I said THEY offered me a set of Firestones at 50% off the price, because of the low mileage I put in them and only 2 years on my car. They shouldnt make noise at 3K miles of use. My original tires, the 'Kumhos' wore out in less than 2K miles! You to? At least it wasnt just me. What does 'OHTSU' that you put in the last line mean? I get the exact size the car is suppose to have. The 14in ones.

If you wear out tires at such a fast rate, 10K miles? Wow! What cheap tires are you using? Why do they put a 40K,50K,70K miles warranty on them if they are not suppose to last that long, if balanced/aligned etc...taken care of?? I would be thrilled to get 25K miles. 3 sets of tires in 33K miles sucks!!!

[FlaAveo5]

I was thinking that, going back and making them do it, i dont want to get all sweaty/dirty for that tire swap, I'd have to get out my spare tire, and do a 3 tire round about to do it. They can put it up on the rack and do it in 10 mins. But it crossed my mind to do it. i am going to TRY lower air pressure tomorrow, I have the front ones up to 38-40psi, ...instead of 34, the number they are 'suppose' to be at...I did that to try and see if they were to low. The sound changed,but didnt go away. Cant say if it is better or worse,so I'll TRY lower and see if that helps. I know the harder pressure gives me the ride I LOVE, rock hard and at least slightly better mileage, BUT they wear out super fast at the higher pressure!

[petrified.rabbit]

OHTSU is a cheap, decent tire brand.

based on your posts, with mileage, extra air pressure, etc. Why not try a 175/65r14? Its not too much of a compromise, its narrower for less rolling resistance, its taller for more distance per rotation, and a cheaply available tire. ($42.99 for a "common" FR380).

My tires are almost always around 10k miles. The mileage warranties aren't necessarily a warranty, but an expectation. If it is treated as a warranty, then it typically requires proof of maintenance that costs more than a set of tires over the time for the tread life (the rotations, alignments, etc) and most tire places I have been to rarely honor the mileage, I found one in my life.

The only things you can use to guess the length of life is the treadler rating, the higher the number the longer the should last. Its a standard number to directly compare between brands. The "miles" number is used as a similar comparison of this, not a guarantee of life with all the loopholes:

Understanding Tire Warranties

this is a good read.

[FlaAveo5]

OHTSU is a cheap, decent tire brand.

based on your posts, with mileage, extra air pressure, etc. Why not try a 175/65r14? Its not too much of a compromise, its narrower for less rolling resistance, its taller for more distance per rotation, and a cheaply available tire. ($42.99 for a "common" FR380).

My tires are almost always around 10k miles. The mileage warranties aren't necessarily a warranty, but an expectation. If it is treated as a warranty, then it typically requires proof of maintenance that costs more than a set of tires over the time for the tread life (the rotations, alignments, etc) and most tire places I have been to rarely honor the mileage, I found one in my life.

The only things you can use to guess the length of life is the treadler rating, the higher the number the longer the should last. Its a standard number to directly compare between brands. The "miles" number is used as a similar comparison of this, not a guarantee of life with all the loopholes:

Understanding Tire Warranties

this is a good read.

I just dont know, the tires pressure is 30psi, thats the MAX pressure,...boy thats low! The max tire pressure on the car door label is 30psi to! Boy thats low! I am use to tires that say the Max. pressure is like 45psi. These things are at 30....isnt that low? The car door label say 30...and that seems low to me to. The tires are all wearing evenly and look 'hard',not like that 'radial tire soft bulge' I see on most cars on the road. I dont get it. I was keeping them filled at like 36psi, thinking that was its recommend pressure. So i thought dropping it to like 32 might make a difference, but they are already at 30psi, and thats the MAX. Any lower and the damn things would be running flat!

Well Monday I am going to my mechanic and see if the front bearings are wearing out or if there is something else wrong. Or get the tires switched back to the way they were,then it was quite! IF I had the $300+ for a new set of Firestones, the half price deal I got offered WITH the full road hazard warranty, balance, rotation,etc inc. I would do it. But I dont. So ill see if the bearings are bad, THAT might be a bit more important anyway!! And spend the money I dont have, on repairing them.

[slayerized6]

I don't understand what the problem is. Your tire is making a humming sound? Its a "high performance tire", so its going to make some noise due to the compounds they use in the rubber. At 3000 miles, you are just breaking in the tires, which is why the tire noise is making itself prevalent now. Look at the reviews on that model of tire and I guarantee you it will have high road noise. The tire shop is just trying to tell you that if you want to get rid of the noise, that you need to buy new tires.You said the tires are wearing evenly with no cupping.The tires are not at fault.

Also, how many miles are on your car? I would look a little more closely at the front wheel bearings and axles if the noise is more than just tire noise.

[FlaAveo5]

I don't understand what the problem is. Your tire is making a humming sound? Its a "high performance tire", so its going to make some noise due to the compounds they use in the rubber. At 3000 miles, you are just breaking in the tires, which is why the tire noise is making itself prevalent now. Look at the reviews on that model of tire and I guarantee you it will have high road noise. The tire shop is just trying to tell you that if you want to get rid of the noise, that you need to buy new tires.You said the tires are wearing evenly with no cupping.The tires are not at fault.

Also, how many miles are on your car? I would look a little more closely at the front wheel bearings and axles if the noise is more than just tire noise.

I bought these tires because they only offered me 2 sets of tires that fit the car. A CHEAP set of Primewells, and these. A more expensive set of what I thought were great tires. I know they are 'high performance' and for this car, i said, why the hell do i need high performance tires? And i was told these are the only 2 sets that fit. So I went with the expensive ones....they were stone quite when put on...I have ONLY 33K miles on my car...and this is the 3rd set of tires! I was told these are making the humming because of what they are made of and the car isnt loaded with sound deadening padding. I know that. BUT i expect tires to last more than 3K miles,2 years, and not sound like they are going flat. IF I was wearing them out speeding and spinning the tires, I would understand it. I like a bit of road noise, I like a hard ride, like in Mercedes, but this is the 3rd set of tires in 9 years and only 33K miles! These have a 50K mile warranty on them,and I keep them balanced/alignment/and rotated like clockwork, so this noise is annoying, and they try to sell me NOW a set of touring tires....finally, at a half price 'deal'. BUT I dont have the $300+ to do it. i am tired of replacing tires! It isnt a Corvette or a Acura NSX, THAT car eats tires at like 15K miles. On THAT car! A super high performance car, with Yokohamas on it. And it took Acura years to admit that this car will eat tires at 15K miles, so...get ready...after they sold them for years and people bitched. But those people can afford it, and its a sport car. This is FAR from that

[FlaAveo5]

SORRY THIS IS SO LONG.......I thought I should post my fix to my tire noise problem, maybe it will help others.

I got my final answer to my tire noise issue. It WAS both front wheel bearings! Nothing to do with the tires. DUH!! I knew that much. My mechanic did the repair this Monday, $499.03!!! My car now has NO road noise at all in it. I am riding in a car as quiet as a Mercedes Benz now! I a min shock. It sounds like I have replaced the tires after I had bald ones on it for a year. I am use to a lot of road noise. But the minute i drove it, after I picked it up, it was/is now dead quite. A VERY pleasant surprise.

The price was shocking, since the rear wheel bearings were replaced when I had the brakes done. It was like $75 ?...but I was told that the front wheel bearing on THIS car, and a few other cars, are not the simple round ones, that these are slightly 'U shaped' at one end, and the entire wheel assembly has to be taken off, and a special tool has to be used to remove the old bearing and to press the new one. They showed me this tool, some blue plastic thing with metal 'poles' and numbers all over it, that somehow gets the bearing off, then presses the new one on. So it takes 2 hours of labor PER side, much longer than the rear ones.

The parts were only like $80....the rest was labor. I called Tire Kingdom to get a price, they wanted....$885!!! I about fainted! Another mechanic that is well known/recommended by friends, they told me to call him and he would be SO much cheaper, he was $535, no cheaper! He aid the same thing about the odd shape and it takes 2 labor hours per side. His labor rates are $90 an hour. My mechanic is $80 per hour, according to the bill. So...I guess I didn't get screwed....right? I dont know. BUT I was lucky to get it done when I did. Because........

One of the other mechanics that took it for a test ride, to hear the noise, then took me out with him driving it, to hear the noise and confirm that is what I was talking about...and he said it was the wheel bearings, both sides, worse on the passenger side. BUT he said, 'since you only started to hear the noise a month ago, you probably have 6-12 months to get them replaced. But I am broke, and charging it anyway, so I said 'I am replacing them both today' . Well they drove me home, and came back 5 hours later and got me, and when I paid the bill, the owners, who I call 'MY mechanic', told me that both bearings were about to have a major failure at anytime!! And I would/could have lost one or both wheels in as little as a few hundred miles!! The bearings were only being held together by the pressure of whatever holds the bearing rings in place and luck. They both just fell apart in the mechanics hands when they got them off!

So this road noise I have been listening to for YEARS, not this new noise, was those bearings going bad slowly all these years. This was a big surprise. Since I am use to the car NOT being a quiet ride, we all know the car transfers road noise to the cabin. I didnt notice the increase over the past 2 years I would say. It only went away and was stone quiet when I replaced the tires. Last time was 2 years ago! So, these bearings must have been going bad for years, but it took this last rotation and balance of the tires, to finally make the bearing noise be heard I guess. And to go have it checked out by my mechanic.

So..thats the story. I saw the bearing 'rings', they are odd shaped, at least what I was shown, they had 'U bend' at one end? Think thats how I would describe it. Thats what makes it so hard to remove and replace them. So it isnt a do it yourself home job. Unless you have this special tool to remove them, and 'repress' them.

So now it is like brand new again, they agree that the tires are in perfect condition and have a lot of tread left on them. I definately don't need a new set of tires!

Especially since I do such little driving, and I take care of the car. It is just my luck, I want to have a minor car accident, but I want a Bentley or Ferrari to rear end ME, so I can get a couple of hundred grand in a lawsuit ...I don't want one of MY front wheels to fly/fall off, and have ME responsible for hitting someone and GET sued!! Plus destroy my car, its not worth fixing if the front end ends up dug into the road and the wheel is broken of the car. It would be WAY to expensive to fix that. I have seen the 'You Tube' videos of 'wheel bearing accidents', and it looks VERY expensive to fix when a wheel flies off a car ,from a wheel bearing failure. So....I have to think of it as, they lasted 9.5 years, thats pretty long, and the cost of the repair is like making 1 car payment, on a 5 year long loan. Now if the timing belt will just hold out for 1 more year,maybe I can pay cash for that repair!!!

I went to Chevy today to get a price from them,my car is fixed now of course. They want, $995 for just the bearings being repressed???...and $1,200 for total replacement for the bearings and the knuckles? they told me the same thing that it is a bitch to get the front ones off, it isnt as simple as the rear ones. And THEY say it is 3 hours per side to replace them! Thats at dealer prices to! The parts alone....$533!

I saw the 'How To Replace My Front Wheel Bearings' post on here, and the guy did it somehow, on the side of the road, and even had his radio stolen while leaving it there, to buy the special tools to get them off etc,....even though he said it was unbelievably hard to do and took several days to do and was a lot of work. So I dont get it. How can you do it at home, yet everyone agrees it is next to impossible, unless you have some special tool to do it?

And the 'pressing' is like arm breakingly hard to do, thats what the service adviser said today. He said, ''I dont know why they made them so hard to replace now, you use to be able to get them off and put them back on pretty easily, but now it takes major tools and massive pressure to get them off and back on.''

So...I guess I didnt get 'taken'. I got the lowest of 4 estimates, hell Chevy wants $553 for 2 wheel bearing hubs....thats the same as a wheel bearing, isn't it? So I paid LESS for the full replacement, less then Chevy charges just for the parts!!