Brake Trouble

Hello, I'm looking for assistance in discovering what went wrong and how to fix it.

Last monday I fixed my drum brakes, some mechanic had forgot to put the pin lock in correctly and it would not stop with the screeching sound. I had to take the shoes off and after I replaced them and tested stepping on the brakes, liquid shot out from the cillinder.
Now I'm having new trouble that could or could not be related to the work I did. Now my e-brake pulls up way further than it used to and what I'm used to, and my front right disc brake makes noise when I'm braking over 20mph and gets extremely hot (I'm afraid of warping the disc or starting a fire so I've been driving under 20mph).

The sound the brakes are making is almost like when you're driving on a flat.

Could I please get some assistance from you knowledgeable folk? Thanks for stopping by the thread.:D

Sorry, bump for urgency, I need my car in working order and don't have money to take it to a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by rgansaldi

Hello, I'm looking for assistance in discovering what went wrong and how to fix it.

Last monday I fixed my drum brakes, some mechanic had forgot to put the pin lock in correctly and it would not stop with the screeching sound. I had to take the shoes off and after I replaced them and tested stepping on the brakes, liquid shot out from the cillinder.

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That is a bad bad sign. That means there is something wrong with the slave cylinder. So I would replace it. Here is the DIY on the brakes
http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/h...es-pads-16262/

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Originally Posted by xintersecty

That is a bad bad sign. That means there is something wrong with the slave cylinder. So I would replace it. Here is the DIY on the brakes
http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/h...es-pads-16262/

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The cylinder from my drum brakes? Even though the problem is from my front disc brakes?
What about the e-brake?

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Originally Posted by rgansaldi

Last monday I fixed my drum brakes, some mechanic had forgot to put the pin lock in correctly and it would not stop with the screeching sound. I had to take the shoes off and after I replaced them and tested stepping on the brakes, liquid shot out from the cillinder.

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your words. I did not see any words stating that front brakes were an issue.

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Originally Posted by rgansaldi

[...]Now my e-brake pulls up way further than it used to and what I'm used to, and my front right disc brake makes noise when I'm braking over 20mph and gets extremely hot (I'm afraid of warping the disc or starting a fire so I've been driving under 20mph).[...]

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Thanks for being in the thread, xintersecty

I could try making a recording and posting to youtube if I sound crazy.

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Originally Posted by rgansaldi

Thanks for being in the thread, xintersecty

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<- My bad, I did not see it the front brake later on.

OK, first off why did you pull the wheel off the front and check the brake? There is an issue going on with the brake fluid.

1) The front wheel should be able to spin with your hand. If not there is something wrong. It could be the rotor is already damaged.

2) Replace your brake cylinder and bleed to brakes.

3) If you had done the rear brakes properly then the e-brake should engaged normally.

4) Have you check your brake fluid?

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Originally Posted by xintersecty

<- My bad, I did not see it the front brake later on.

OK, first off why did you pull the wheel off the front and check the brake? There is an issue going on with the brake fluid.

1) The front wheel should be able to spin with your hand. If not there is something wrong. It could be the rotor is already damaged.

2) Replace your brake cylinder and bleed to brakes.

3) If you had done the rear brakes properly then the e-brake should engaged normally.

4) Have you check your brake fluid?

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I never removed my wheel, I just touched the disc after I noticed the problem. It was noticeably hotter than the other.

1) I have not tried spinning it, I will try to do so now.
2) Why would I need to do this? I like to know the how of things so I can better address the problem, how does this improve the problem?
3) The rear brakes work OK (in my opinion), the pedal does not go down further than it should. The problem is only with the e-brake.
4) How do I do that? I do not see that in my owner manual.

Sorry, the e-brake does engaged but at the max pull of the lever.

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Originally Posted by rgansaldi

Sorry, the e-brake does engaged but at the max pull of the lever.

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You need to fix the hydraulics. If you still have stuff leaking out of ANY of the cylinders, then you don't have a good foundation. OK, I put up a link showing the how to assemble the rear brakes properly: http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/h...es-pads-16262/

Go through and check and make sure that the brake adjuster and the pads are assemble properly. Once you have a properly assembled assembly AND a working and bleed brake hydraulics, then you can adjust the rear brakes by going backwards and tapping the brakes.

As to why? Here is a tutorial on how brakes work: How Brakes Work - HowStuffWorks

When you wheel does not spin freely (car transmission in neutral) then there is something wrong with the brake/rotor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xintersecty

You need to fix the hydraulics. If you still have stuff leaking out of ANY of the cylinders, then you don't have a good foundation. OK, I put up a link showing the how to assemble the rear brakes properly: http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/h...es-pads-16262/

Go through and check and make sure that the brake adjuster and the pads are assemble properly. Once you have a properly assembled assembly AND a working and bleed brake hydraulics, then you can adjust the rear brakes by going backwards and tapping the brakes.

As to why? Here is a tutorial on how brakes work: How Brakes Work - HowStuffWorks

When you wheel does not spin freely (car transmission in neutral) then there is something wrong with the brake/rotor.

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Damn it, I've been waiting for your response all afternoon. Didn't see there was a second page. I'm pretty sure my cylinder is good, I'm going to bleed the brakes and check it again, then adjust by going in reverse and braking.

I will post again here with my results.

Readjusting the brakes in reverse solved my e-brake problem. Still waiting on getting money to buy the brake fluid.

I haven't chimed in here because you have had a good guide. But if your front rotor issues might me a sign that the caliper is hanging up. (Since you mention needed to get money just to buy the fluid i figure you probably don't have the money to waste).

Try pulling the caliper off and putting it on a block of wood. (needs to be about the width of the rotor and two pads). Then have someone press and release the breaks a few times. Each time see if the caliper releases, see if you can push the piston back in, might need a caliper piston compressor tool if it is "tight" which isn't abnormal. But if you can't get it to go it, or it is hung up, you probably won't be able to easily get it removed to check it anyhow. But sometimes, pressing the brakes and compressing the piston a few times might free up the caliper versus buying a new one. I would do this, then bleed them.

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

I haven't chimed in here because you have had a good guide. But if your front rotor issues might me a sign that the caliper is hanging up. (Since you mention needed to get money just to buy the fluid i figure you probably don't have the money to waste).

Try pulling the caliper off and putting it on a block of wood. (needs to be about the width of the rotor and two pads). Then have someone press and release the breaks a few times. Each time see if the caliper releases, see if you can push the piston back in, might need a caliper piston compressor tool if it is "tight" which isn't abnormal. But if you can't get it to go it, or it is hung up, you probably won't be able to easily get it removed to check it anyhow. But sometimes, pressing the brakes and compressing the piston a few times might free up the caliper versus buying a new one. I would do this, then bleed them.

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I learned something new from you each time Rabbit. A hanging caliper is a good bit. I have been fortunate I never had that issue. Now on my truck I have the brakes get stuck on when I release the e-brake. I usually use a channel lock to squeeze the calipers back.

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

I haven't chimed in here because you have had a good guide. But if your front rotor issues might me a sign that the caliper is hanging up. (Since you mention needed to get money just to buy the fluid i figure you probably don't have the money to waste).

Try pulling the caliper off and putting it on a block of wood. (needs to be about the width of the rotor and two pads). Then have someone press and release the breaks a few times. Each time see if the caliper releases, see if you can push the piston back in, might need a caliper piston compressor tool if it is "tight" which isn't abnormal. But if you can't get it to go it, or it is hung up, you probably won't be able to easily get it removed to check it anyhow. But sometimes, pressing the brakes and compressing the piston a few times might free up the caliper versus buying a new one. I would do this, then bleed them.

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You are correct there, Rabbit! Can't spare a square. Could you provide more details on the pistons of the calipers? Pushing them back in should correct the problem, permanently? How does using a piston compression tool kit solve it being tight? I don't understand how pushing it in keeps it from staying out again.

Thank you both for your concerns.

the piston uses fluid to travel out, and release of pressure lets it slide back in, nothing forces it back in. the pistons mostly go out and not back in as the brake pads wear.

if the brakes are constantly low and fluid starts to break down, the wall of the cylinder could get stuck with build up, and the piston will not retract. this keeps pressure on the brakes creating wear and heat.

Running the pistons back the to "new pad position" so to speak or all the way in will run over any build up, and then going back and forth "forcing" the piston over the cylinder wall can clean these build up ridges.

it could make the caliper unstuck. It works sometimes, most of the time we buy new calipers. Bleeding the brakes when you are done gets the gunk out of the caliper.

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

the piston uses fluid to travel out, and release of pressure lets it slide back in, nothing forces it back in. the pistons mostly go out and not back in as the brake pads wear.

if the brakes are constantly low and fluid starts to break down, the wall of the cylinder could get stuck with build up, and the piston will not retract. this keeps pressure on the brakes creating wear and heat.

Running the pistons back the to "new pad position" so to speak or all the way in will run over any build up, and then going back and forth "forcing" the piston over the cylinder wall can clean these build up ridges.

it could make the caliper unstuck. It works sometimes, most of the time we buy new calipers. Bleeding the brakes when you are done gets the gunk out of the caliper.

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Forgive me, the "new pad position"? Using the piston compression tool?

Also, how can I tell if my rotor is warped? (I hope this isn't the case)

Run the hub around and it if it rubs on/off then it's warped.
Take a bit and read up on how brakes work.
How Brakes Work - HowStuffWorks

I've just removed my caliper and it seems the rotor is rough the spin, even with the loose pads. It seems the piston is indeed stuck, how do I know it will return? Right now after pressing on the brakes (and after various compressions with the piston compressor) the piston is not returning, or will it return once mounted with the pads?

After some penetrating oil on the backside I was able to get it to loosen up. Not as much as I'd like but it will do.
Will apply lube on my disc pads and check again.

have you ever changed brakes?

a caliper tool is like a C clamp you use to push in the piston so the new pads fit but its the actual tool you use.



DO not oil your brakes..


Is the car in gear? from rotors might not turn if the car is in gear.

So, I've compressed the piston and it freed up. Pressed the brakes and now they're dragging again. Will the piston only return once I've bled my brakes to remove any possible bubbles in the line? Must my piston by compressed at the moment of bleeding the brakes?

how bad are they dragging? there is not a forced return, just a release of pressure.

bleeding them may help. But you should be able to get the piston to travel so the rotor spins freely.

ONCE I GET SOMEONE TO ASSIST ME WITH THE BLEEDING I'LL BE ABLE TO KNOW FOR SURE soryy for caps

Ladies & gentlemen,

Thank you so much for the support you have given me here. I look forward to all the problems I will learn from in the future.

The problem was definitely that there was air in the brakes, also causing the piston to stick.
It started when I had disassembled the rear right drum brake to replace the shoes because of an extreme screeching noise as if grinding the rivets. I could not pull the drum off, weird. It took a hell lot of pulling and prying on the back plate to slowly get it off the mount. It turns out that the shoe wasn't worn out but the pin had come off so the shoe's edge was pressing the drum at an angle. When I thought I finally got it set up, I pressed on the brakes and heard the sound of liquid shooting out from the cylinder. The cylinder head had come off, I simply cleaned and replaced it, it created a tight seal. :laughing3: Oh, my face must have been priceless.
I finally got it set up and was very happy with my work but then noticed a weird noise from the front right brake, it took me a while to identify what was going on. Today I took apart the caliper and compressed the pistons several times, I had to put a socket inside of it to be able to push it down all the way. I borrowed assistance from 2 friends and we quickly went wheel by wheel jacking it up, the jack is too small to lift the car onto a strut, and bleeding the mildly dirty brake fluid. My friend assisted me with holding the hose and keeping it under the surface of the bucket.

What do I do with old brake fluid?

Drum Brakes
How to Replace Drum Brake Shoes (Full) - EricTheCarGuy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCpCkun2qxA

Calipers
How to Spot and Service a Stuck Rear Caliper - EricTheCarGuy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urK2EsZn4pQ
How to Unstick Frozen Brake Caliper Pistons - Mercedessource
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc4zlGaJgoA

Bleeding
How to do a Complete Brake Flush and Bleed - ChrisFix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1NvtUwfRJc

Tonight we worked in the night.
Now I have to deal with the electrical, some of my lights don't work. Where do I start to deal with a short circuit?

Thanks to petrified.rabbit and xintersecty for the advice. Good call on the piston!:occasion5:

I declare this thread closed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

have you ever changed brakes?

a caliper tool is like a C clamp you use to push in the piston so the new pads fit but its the actual tool you use.



DO not oil your brakes..


Is the car in gear? from rotors might not turn if the car is in gear.

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Hahaha, no I have never done brakes. I would consider this my first important car repair. Yes, I got the tool and it worked great for my needs. I did not oil my brakes, I was am aware that this could start a fire (?). No, the car was never in gear.

Congratulations. Rabbit is the dude when it comes to tricky stuff. That stuck caliper was difficult diagnoses.