Chevy Sonic diesel for the U.S.?

You can get a diesel Sonic (Aveo) in Europe - a 1.3 L turbodiesel with a start-stop feature. I wonder what's the likelihood of GM offering a diesel for North America:

GM (N.A.) already confirmed they're going to offer a diesel option in the Cruze for 2013:

Quote:

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2011-07-22 - DETROIT – Chevrolet confirmed today it will add a diesel variant to the Cruze lineup in North America in calendar year 2013. Diesel versions of the Cruze are currently being sold in Europe. Additional details on the Cruze diesel for North American markets will be released at a later date.

The diesel will bolster the already fuel-efficient Cruze lineup. Cruze Eco with a standard six-speed manual transmission, is the most fuel-efficient gas-powered/non-hybrid vehicle in America, with an EPA-rated 42 mpg on the highway.

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Source: GM News - United States - News

So, yeah, pretty thin on details.

And we already know that such an engine would bolt right in the Sonic, because the 2 engines in the Sonic are already sourced from the Cruze: the 1.8L normally aspirated, and the 1.4 turbo.

I would say the answer will depend on 2 things:

1) The price of fuel.

Diesels cost more, and most people buy them for the increase in fuel economy (the fantastic torque is a nice byproduct of oil burners). North Americans have a demonstrated tendency to stop caring about fuel economy when high prices go back down (or when they get used to the higher prices).

GM will not go to the trouble of certifying/marketing a diesel if they're only going to sell 100 a month.

2) Marketing.

GM North America is flogging the Sonic as a fun car for the younger demographic. Sticking Herr Diesel's machina under the hood doesn't mesh with that marketing angle. Yet the 2012 Aveo will have a 1.3L turbodiesel in Europe, and it'll probably be the best engine (for performance and economy) and the most popular. (No 1.4 turbo petrol Europe version though.)

A diesel Sonic would make GM the only competition to the VW Golf diesel in North America.

But... if I had to bet, I'd say reason #2 makes it unlikely we'll see one on this side of the pond.

Does anyone even care? :D (Besides Rabbit?)

i personal would hope the sonic/cruze revelation (korean cars built by americans) would have sooner followed the vw market groupings (tdi, standard, two versions of sport in the vr6 and 1.8t), if they were still built by koreans.

As much as a diesel cruze or sonic would draw from the market (lets face it it has potential for 70+ mpg) i can see NA builders screwing it up.

I voted "bring it", but "never gonna happen" is more likely the truth.

We (AUS) are getting the Astra (Opel) Diesel later this year.

gclark8 - I assume you mean in the Barina (Sonic/Aveo). What will the diesel displacement be?

Also - where does the new Barina's 1.6 petrol come from - is it a carryover from last year's (previous version) model?

FYI, the 3- & 5-door Astra was available in North America through "Saturn" dealers (with the same 1.8L gas engine that's the base engine in the Cruze and the Sonic in this market now), but GM dropped Saturn as a brand, and the Astra went with it after just 2 years (of low sales). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Astra#Saturn_Astra

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wylee

I voted "bring it", but "never gonna happen" is more likely the truth.

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Ain't it the truth....

They may not offer it for the Sonic/Aveo here. But, it probably won't be that hard to swap the engine if you really want it considering the similarities...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MetroMPG

gclark8 - I assume you mean in the Barina (Sonic/Aveo). What will the diesel displacement be?

Also - where does the new Barina's 1.6 petrol come from - is it a carryover from last year's (previous version) model?

FYI, the 3- & 5-door Astra was available in North America through "Saturn" dealers (with the same 1.8L gas engine that's the base engine in the Cruze and the Sonic in this market now), but GM dropped Saturn as a brand, and the Astra went with it after just 2 years (of low sales). Opel Astra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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You have more information than I.

My son suggested the new Euro Opel Astra Diesel to me, he has one 3-4 years old, and thought the fuel economy would suit me better. I only get 330km to a tank full.

Saturn used to be a Mitsubishi Brand in Aus.

Has Chevy released any additional specs on the engine they're going to put in the diesel Cruze? Last I heard, speculation was a 2.0L that I think they had overseas somewhere.

Well, I looked up the specs on the current cruze diesel engine they have over in the UK. Looks to be a 2.0L that pumps out a respectable 162 horsepower and 265 ft/lbs of torque! Can't say that wouldn't be a bit of fun in a Sonic. :) Of course, Chevy hasn't announced if they will in fact use that specific engine or not.

The 1.3 litre 75 hp diesel in my 2012 Aveo, it has got start/stop, works wonderfully.Attachment 5413

You're happy with it?

I read an article recently that some owners of Euro-spec start/stop cars are disabling the feature because they feel it causes the battery to wear out sooner than "normal".

With their fuel prices I'd take a 10% increase in fuel economy and replace my battery a year earlier!

I have read some articles about this too, I am not sure if the problem would be in the more temperate areas of Europe, i.e. Scandinavia, Germany, etc which have cold winters. Here in the Aegean region of Turkey, it never gets below zero C in the winter. One way around is the NiMH or Li-ion car batteries that are now available. That being said, I can say the battery in my diesel Aveo is a much bigger and more robust looking unit then what was in my previous 2010 Aveo. I guess I will find out. I will let everyone know about it's workings and any problems.

it was a old problem of multijet 1.3 diesel start & stop, I think. no one for now in the italian aveo club forum has reported this battery trouble. but there are another three problems:

1- FAP. Filtro anti particolato in italian (anti particulate filter). I don t know if in usa knows this diabolic tool, but in europe fap is mounted on every diesel engine for neutralize (burning) the fine dust resulting from diesel combustion, very harmful for health. This filter is a mandatory device for respect euro emission standards (if you remove this device you risk veicle administrative stop and a high fine). Whats the problem? FAP must regenerate themself every "x" thousand (or even hundreds) kilometers otherwise it becomes blocked. In this case oil can also overflow into the engine...in order that regeneration be successful you need to proceed continously for 10 - 20 kilometers whithout interruptions. so, If you often or ever drive the car for short ride with several stop and restart (in the city for exemple) is impossible to complete fap regenerations successfully...
But in usa probably diesel engines would not take this filters.

2 - Code 89 error. This message afflict several 1.3 diesel engines, mostly 95 hp engines. Consequences are not serious, the error message seems to be connected with a lamda probe issue. replaced it and problem will be fixed.

3 - start & stop seems works schizophrenic. If the air conditioner system is on, often the start e stop doesnt work regularly.

the pros are the extremly good fuel economy. aveo/sonic sedan is the most efficient sedan in europe whit only 4.2 liters every 100 km in the city and a good torque (175 nm 1750 rpm).

In America I know trucks have a dpf (diesel particulate filter). I dunno about smaller engined cars though

I'd love to see it. We're talking about the Cruze diesel on Cruzetalk.com as well.

hi!;)
here at greece i have the new one 1.3 ltz sedan aveo diesel:D
luxury version with all the goods u need.
touch screen 16inch weels start stop cruise control bluetooh auto sensor lights - rain and many many more!

95hp and 4.1l/100klm.
very smooth and quiet.
if u have any other problem after 300.000klm with the dpf u can remove it and erase it from the ecu with the genius tester.
also u can ad more 40% power to the enghine and ur chevy will fly!
u must use very good synthetic oils because of the dpf.
after u remove it u can use chiper.
all the turbo diesel recycle the exaust to the enghine oils so u must be very carefull.
if u want more details about it let me know!:)

remove dpf is totally illegal in ue...400 till 1600 euro fine and withdrawal of the car certificate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by klieberung

remove dpf is totally illegal in ue...400 till 1600 euro fine and withdrawal of the car certificate.

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when u buy the car u pay the taxes for this stupid dpf.
do u know that dpf is more dangerous when its start to overheat to burn the smoke of the diesel?
first to the driver and then to the envioroment?
the supercharget diesel cars have limit 3.0
with dpf u have 0.30-0.80
with no dpf u have 1.20.
u r one the limit!
do u know all this?
and when the time is come to replace it u can pay 3.000 euros!

keep that in mine!

i know but i am not the legislator. it s for why i dont buy a diesel. never.

All the on the road diesels in North America need a DPF and SCR units as of 2012. Until the reliability of those units is improved, I'd stay the hell away.

DPF: Diesel Particulate Filter
SCR: Selective Catalytic Reduction

The DPF catches particles and re-burns them at high temperature. The reason you see the big muffler tip on pickup trucks, to cool the exhaust since it burns so hot.

The SCR unit uses urea (DEF, Diesel Exhaust Fluid) and a catalyst to reduce NOx emissions. There is a tank on the vehicle that you have to fill with urea. Another added cost of running diesels.

Those systems add quite a bit of $$$ to the price of a car/truck and aren't without problems. For example, DEF freezes at -12C. DEF lines on vehicles have to be heated. Failure of the heating system will render the SCR inoperable and will disable the vehicle. It happens a lot.

Scr is not required, cummins just got clearence till 2015 to run their automotive engine with just dpf, which is an easy delete.

Hello,

I drive in Europe an Aveo 1.3 Diesel LTZ 95 hp manual six gear an have been struck with the Code 89 error and I am not the only one...

Do you have more detailed information about this problem?

Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steven.jacob

Hello,

I drive in Europe an Aveo 1.3 Diesel LTZ 95 hp manual six gear an have been struck with the Code 89 error and I am not the only one...

Do you have more detailed information about this problem?

Thanks.

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did u check the manual?
did u ask the service manager of ur local dealer of chevy?
give us more details!

Code 89 book service:u must drive ur car for service.
does blink the light with the car?
u must go for service to the local dealer.
some times gets wrong errors codes from the cell phones!
the code 89 it has to do with the service of the car!
check it!

No, it is something that klieberung posted on 12-23-2012
Code 89 error. This message afflict several 1.3 diesel engines, mostly 95 hp engines. Consequences are not serious, the error message seems to be connected with a lamda probe issue. replaced it and problem will be fixed.

My car is already 1,5 weeks at the Chevrolet dealer; they already changed the air mass meter and the EGR valve. The news i got today that they were regenerating the DPF filtre.

i don't know what u mean?
first give us more details about ur car klm , service history and when start the problem!
if ur car its new u don't have to change the EGR or anything else.
do u follow the rules of the car?
ur diesel fuel is good?
do u use diesel fuel injection cleaner?
read ur manual code 89 do a service to ur car!
the DPF makes it self regenerating.
u know to do that?
did u know what u get?
do u know how to drive the diesel cars with DPF?
Did u read the manual about the DPF and how it works?
1.5 weeks at ur local dealer to find what is the problem?
man i am really sorry but u must find other shevy dealer.
2 years now and all the aveo diesels here at greece dosen't have any problem.
the 75 and 95hp.

and something about the start stop system!
when the a/c works u must remember:
if its on hot and defrost the inside of the car the system dosen't work because its gonna freeze the front windsield.
second if its on cold the sytem still works even if the car stops.
it starts again without to do anything because the tepm is high than the low temp u set inside of the car , so it has to work again to low the temp u set.
the car starts again if u open the door to remind u that the car its on the start stop system.

do u know all this?
again did u read the manual?

give us more details

let us know 2 help u more!

Hello,

My car is a Aveo 5 door 95 hp diesel six gear new from 01/2012 with now ± 35.000 km; 90% on highway with long distance.
I do now how a DFP works; i already drove 2 Citroens en 1 Renault with a DFP (or FAP filtre).
I always use Esso diesel, wich i used in past with all my other cars before and never had problems.
Car is serviced every 15.000 km. One day at around 33.000 km i got the service code 89 error and afterwards the OBD2 lamp went on.

The service code 89 error is known problem, but Chevrolet Belgium does not know a solution for the moment. The even asked Chevrolet Europe...

If you understand french you can read on this forum from people in France with the same problem and Chevrolet France does not know a solution :
Erreur code 89 sur Chevrolet Aveo - ApocalX Questio

hi!
i would like to ask u if u have the same oils for 15.000klm?
did u change the oil before the 15.000?
all the diesels as u know even if u change the oil it turns to be black because of the turbo.
because i have a grand vitara DDIS and i know very well how it works and all the positive and negative about the diesel dpf and enghine my opinion is that u change the oil every 7-10.000 klm maximum.
always oil filter and again use better oil than the oil suggest the company.
oil for dpf diesel filters and full synthetic.
MOTUL - SHELL HELIX ULTRA EXTRA - CASTROL - and some others.
also u must use diesel injection cleaner every 10-15.000 klm
full tank = 1 bottle of cleaner liquid of diesel STP - SONAX - SHELL - WURTH - AND MANY MORE!
I THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE SERVICE PERIOD OF THE CAR !
ask them to show u the quality of the oil that enghine have and the most important of this cars is the oil!
don't forget that the oil it mixes with the exaust gas again and again and again.
when u do the first service?
1000klm?
did u change the oil filter?
did u set the oil level at the checker of oil at the car?
it has to do the way that they service ur car!
something they do not doing at the wright way!
check to see if u have to much oil at the intake of the turbo!
check it to see if its like cream and not normal oil?
the hall problem came from the oil
what oil is?
ELDONS?


LET ME KNOW!
WE FIND THE SOLUTION!
i am gonna ask my friends here at chevy !
i am gonna have news very soon!

Hello,
The oil is 5W30 Dexos2 GM oil. What you are telling about the service is not correct, there is no need for a first service at 1000 km.
My car is serviced every 15000 km with filtre change.

Any news from your friend at Chevy about the code 89?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by steven.jacob

Hello,
What you are telling about the service is not correct, there is no need for a first service at 1000 km.
My car is serviced every 15000 km with filtre change.

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HI!
i wonder if u read what i am say here!
did u read it?
at the first 1000 we change the oil because of the new enghine(oil +filter) AND because of the very small piecces of the enghine that its goes at the lower place of the lower oil pan!

I REPEAT MY SELF!!!!!
did u set the oil level at the checker of oil at ur dashboard at the car?
U KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

we don't use this oil for 15.000 klm.
ITS TOOOOOOO MUCH!
its only 1248 this engine end u expect to have this oil for 15.000klm?
and u drive it at the most of the time at the highways!
i change the oil at 7.000klm!
use some of this every 15.000klm
http://www.stp.eu/uk/products/item/id/192/diesel-injector-cleaner.
OR this PROTEC COMMON RAIL DIESEL SYSTEM CLEAN & PROTECT 375ml

we have aveo with 40.000klm and we don't have any problem!
it has to do with ur oils and with ur outside temp!

i am try to help u to find a solution for ur problem, and u talking about my country and for our nice dusty roads!!!

:salute::salute:

I phoned Chevrolet Belgium today; they told me it is an emission problem caused by a sensitive sensor to keep the engine within the emission specs.
The solution has to come from Chevrolet Europe; new firmware? So nothing to do with oil.

News from Chevrolet Belgium today.
There is mechanical nothing wrong with the car, it's a software problem.
Chevrolet Europe will release a software update next month.

Having done research, I can import 2012 and 2013 1.3L Diesel Aveos from Germany (left hand drive) into canada and the us.
The only way to ship cost effectively is by larger numbers of cars. For interests sake, how many people are serious out getting a brand new euro aveo diesel? There is third party warranties you can buy that are legitimate (ebay,etc).

LMK,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tonybrent

Having done research, I can import 2012 and 2013 1.3L Diesel Aveos from Germany (left hand drive) into canada and the us.
The only way to ship cost effectively is by larger numbers of cars. For interests sake, how many people are serious out getting a brand new euro aveo diesel? There is third party warranties you can buy that are legitimate (ebay,etc).

LMK,

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With euro exchange rate how much they cost once in Canada?

I had a look in France there was a LTZ 95bhp manual 6speed for 13500 euros brand new. I think that their price include taxes and delivery charges. On that you have to add 2000$ for transport to Canada, 500$ custom fees, federal and provincial inspection. Sales taxes will probably be added on 13500 euro amount. We are talking of about 23000$ at the door which isn't too bad compared to normal LTZ prices. But warranty and parts and services will be an issue. Don't think it really worth it at theses price you are getting into golf tdi territory.