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Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
I just did my first oil change since getting my car. I put Mobil 1/5W-30 in. I also changed the plugs to Bosch Platinum +4's. I haven't yet went through a full tank, but it seems as though my mileage is worse (so far anyways). I usually get 330ish miles per tank (10gal). I am close to half a tank now and only at 120 miles. How is this possible? I do notice a slight performance increase, but I don't use it. I still drive 60-65 on the highway portion of my route to work (80% highway), and pop it in neutral almost always before coming to a stop.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Get rid of the platnium plugs
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Also coasting in neutral uses more gas than decelerating the car. Because the car is fed gas at idle versus cutting fuel until reading the matched rpm according to the pedal (with the momentum of the car keeping rpms above that point). But this is nitpicking onfuel consumption maybe a mile per tank.
My car always has it's best mpg right after an oil change and even feels a little more powerful. But I use conventional as the only reason for synthetic is factory tolerance recommendations and/or to prevent sludging typical in low displacement turbo engines. Even though synthetic is typically benefiticial across the board, I have found in my "cheap" cars it doesn't make a big difference like onewould expect. Especially for the added cost.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
from what i've read on other post,the aveo motor doesn't play well with platinum plugs.copper core plugs do.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
I never had any use for platinum plugs. Conventional plugs work fine. Check that you have the correct heat range for whatever plug you are using. If it is too 'cold' a plug your mileage will be affected. Also check the plug gap.
The synthetic oil shouldn't make any difference, but the plugs would.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
Also coasting in neutral uses more gas than decelerating the car. Because the car is fed gas at idle versus cutting fuel until reading the matched rpm according to the pedal (with the momentum of the car keeping rpms above that point). But this is nitpicking onfuel consumption maybe a mile per tank.
The folks over at EcoModder may be privy to that info. There is an entire community who seems to think just the opposite.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
look at apr tuning chips, they completely cut fuel on deceleration to improve fuel mileage. their research is better than mine,
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Coasting in neutral while idling can be more beneficial than decelerating under fuel cut when the coasting distance is significantly longer. Under fuel cut, you're engine braking, so not going to go nearly as far. Meaning you needed to stay on the gas longer before beginning to engine brake, or get on the gas sooner after engine braking (unless you're coming to a full stop).
There are times where each approach is more efficient. But you're right, the difference amounts to drops in the bucket.
One instance where fuel cut is desirable over neutral coasting is where you want to slow down faster than a neutral coast. Definitely less fuel used with fuel cut/engine braking than by using the friction brakes in neutral.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
On my '07 Aveo (with a manual,) the engine will not enter fuel cut-off if I let off on the gas while going less than 40 MPH, regardless of the gear I'm in. Starting at around 42 or so it'll work, and stay in fuel-cut until around 1200 RPM.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Rotareneg - how are you monitoring fuel cut mode?
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Well, I think I was a tad premature in my assumption. I just filled up and I got 330 miles out of this tank: only a few miles short of my average.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Well, that's good.
I was going to make a comment earlier about the accuracy of eyeballing the fuel gauge/trip odometer. :)
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
idk if this will help hooah but the gas guage is kinda weird sometimes...
itll go from full to half real quick but take like twice as long to reach empty. I commute almost 300 miles i think a week between home and school.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddemonx92
idk if this will help hooah but the gas guage is kinda weird sometimes...
itll go from full to half real quick but take like twice as long to reach empty. I commute almost 300 miles i think a week between home and school.
I've noticed that on a couple cars I've had.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooah212002
I just did my first oil change since getting my car. I put Mobil 1/5W-30 in. I also changed the plugs to Bosch Platinum +4's. I haven't yet went through a full tank, but it seems as though my mileage is worse (so far anyways). I usually get 330ish miles per tank (10gal). I am close to half a tank now and only at 120 miles. How is this possible? I do notice a slight performance increase, but I don't use it. I still drive 60-65 on the highway portion of my route to work (80% highway), and pop it in neutral almost always before coming to a stop.
Run NGK Iridiums. The Aveo seems to like these plugs.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
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Originally Posted by Wolfman AK907
Run NGK Iridiums. The Aveo seems to like these plugs.
Really? Well, I suppose if I can't get back up to 34/35 mpg I'll swap them, but seeing as how I already spent 25 bucks on plugs and I can't take 'em back, I doubt if I'll change them before I'm sure.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
there is a long history of plug questions.. the answer usually results in keeping "oem"..
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG
Rotareneg - how are you monitoring fuel cut mode?
With a Scangauge 2.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Fuel gauges aren't notorious for accuracy, since even temperature changes can alter the signal from the sending unit to the ECM.
Also - if you were getting XX MPG average, that doesn't mean that you went XX miles for each gallon you used, specifically. If the first half of your tank was all City driving, stop and go, you'd have averaged much less, and used the first half of the tank much quicker, than the second half, which could have been a 200 mile trip on the highway, averaging YY MPG for those gallons.
Something like the above scenario could account for your odd fuel gauge behavior?
You know this if you're watching an SG2, though. I sure could use one of those...
I second getting rid of the Bosch Platinum plugs. They, like many others, appear to only be "designer" parts.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
Also coasting in neutral uses more gas than decelerating the car. Because the car is fed gas at idle versus cutting fuel until reading the matched rpm according to the pedal (with the momentum of the car keeping rpms above that point). But this is nitpicking onfuel consumption maybe a mile per tank.
My car always has it's best mpg right after an oil change and even feels a little more powerful. But I use conventional as the only reason for synthetic is factory tolerance recommendations and/or to prevent sludging typical in low displacement turbo engines. Even though synthetic is typically benefiticial across the board, I have found in my "cheap" cars it doesn't make a big difference like onewould expect. Especially for the added cost.
a lot of bad information you are trying to spread.
Synthetic does improve fuel economy, engine life, oil change intervals and engine cleanliness. It is not just for factory tolerances or turbo engines. also when used properly, synthetic is the cheaper oil change seeing it costs 20-40% more but can go usually twice to three times the usual oil change. Anyone changing synthetic at the same interval as conventional knows nothing about synthetic oil and is dumping oil that essentially hasn't even seen 50% of its oil life.
Also, it is a myth that during deceleration that the fuel it turned off seeing it isn't.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
I agree about synthetic oil. I normally run 10k miles on my synthetic and usually do an oil analysis when it gets changed. There are never abnormally high amounts of particulates in the oil.
I'm not sure what you're saying about fuel cut on deceleration. Most modern cars do turn off fuel injection entirely during in gear deceleration with a manual transmission. I have a gauge that measures the PWM signal to the injectors, so I can say this for fact. I know not all cars do it, but I haven't heard of any 2000+ cars that don't.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Synthetic does improve fuel economy
Can you point me to some scientific data to prove this?
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
He can point you to all the information that proves it is true, just as well as someone can point you to all the information that says it is not true.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
1. Synthetic does not improve fuel economy for the same weight of oil. It does afford a longer OCI, which has been proven over and over again. If you change your oil from 5w30 Dino to 5w30 Syn, you're just going to get better oil (opinion, subject to differences) and a longer OCI (proven on many accounts).
2. Fuel cut does exist. It's programmed into just about as many OBD-II vehicles as I can recall, although I'm surely not thinking of a few that don't have it. It does not exist on carburetor equipped vehicles, except a select couple which had technology to prevent fuel flow on deceleration, under heavy vacuum.
3. Of course, anyone can seek out and find information which "tells the truth" about what they're trying to say, and of course, said information will always directly support that person's POV. It's the reader's job (lurkers, too) to distinguish what of that information is suited to them, and which they choose to believe.
Remember, you can only tell the truth - you can't make anyone else believe it.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Thank you.
But another thing to watch out for synthetic oci, if you read the fine print many of them say you need to follow your factory recommended oci. Therefore if you have a warranty and are only doing oil changes every 10k because you made the switch, the factory wont replace your engine.. and the oil company won't back you up.
Any time i have done engine under warranty work it has been required of the owner to provide proof of all oil changes to the factory for the exchange. If they could not provide proof within 500-1000 tolerance (typically) for the oil changes (we only required the last 3) with the recommended intervals then they would need to pay for the work. Warranty probably wouldn't cover it.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveoRob
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Synthetic does improve fuel economy
Can you point me to some scientific data to prove this?
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Hope you have a couple months.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
Thank you.
But another thing to watch out for synthetic oci, if you read the fine print many of them say you need to follow your factory recommended oci. Therefore if you have a warranty and are only doing oil changes every 10k because you made the switch, the factory wont replace your engine.. and the oil company won't back you up.
Any time I have done engine under warranty work it has been required of the owner to provide proof of all oil changes to the factory for the exchange. If they could not provide proof within 500-1000 tolerance (typically) for the oil changes (we only required the last 3) with the recommended intervals then they would need to pay for the work. Warranty probably wouldn't cover it.
You can have an oil analysis done and prove that the oil was perfectly fine when a failure happened. This takes a week to Blackstone Labs in the US and Wearcheck in Canada and they provide back a detailed report stating all the wear metals and the TBN (Total Base Number) of the oil.
I am not going to go into the "prove it" arguement to tell people that synthetic oil helps in increasing fuel economy and engine cleanliness. Anyone that knows engine oils knows what I am talking about.
It is mostly the cheap car owners that will find any excuse not to use it seeing it costs more so they will put it down or make up why it shouldn't be used. These people usually use Fram oil filters as well.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Hmmmm....I thought I said scientific. I don't think a forum website qualifies. Please explain the physics behind your claim that synthetic oil improves fuel economy. I understand about longevity and lower operating temperatures and all of the other benefits of synthetic oil, but please show me the empirical data showing improved fuel economy.
I know it's human nature to think you are getting better mileage since you paid all of that extra money, bit if there was a noticable, measurable cost effective improvement in mileage, don't you think they would advertise it?
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveoRob
Hmmmm....I thought I said scientific. I don't think a forum website qualifies. Please explain the physics behind your claim that synthetic oil improves fuel economy. I understand about longevity and lower operating temperatures and all of the other benefits of synthetic oil, but please show me the empirical data showing improved fuel economy.
I know it's human nature to think you are getting better mileage since you paid all of that extra money, bit if there was a noticable, measurable cost effective improvement in mileage, don't you think they would advertise it?
Read the forum, all they do is talk about oil. I am not going to do the work for you. That site has the most infomation on oil on the internet. It is full of scientific discussion from industry reps and oil testing scientists from around the US.
Actually, they do advertise it. And seeing the oil doesn't thicken as much and its kinematic viscosity allows for quicker warmup and better colder temperature economy and lower viscosity, it does make a difference.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveoRob
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
It is mostly the cheap car owners that will find any excuse not to use it seeing it costs more so they will put it down or make up why it shouldn't be used. These people usually use Fram oil filters as well.
When I traded in my '86 yoda truck it had 255K worth of miles on Fram filters and dino oil. I got 1K for it. Do you think if I used syn oil and mobil 1 filters I would have got more as a return on investment?
If you knew anything about the internal construction of a Fram oil filter, you wouldn't be making that claim. It has 50% less filter media, cardboard internal construction and most over time collapse internally and have a nitrile anti-drainback valve that hardens quickly and allows the oil in the top end of the motor to drain back into the oil pan causing a dry startup knock and increased startup wear.
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Subtitle change time...
I won't respond to the synthetic issue as it appears I now have to do the research myself (which, I admit, I should have done in the first place, but i assumed someone had already done so and would respond accordingly with data instead of opinion).
I will, however, respond to the posters saying "get rid of the Bosch Platinums". I say "why?". I already spent the money, I can't take them back and I saw no fuel consumption change (check a few posts up where I admitted jumping the gun in my OP). Now, if going to the NGK Iridiums will give me noticable MPG improvements, then I can see dropping another $25-$30 on a new set.
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Re: Subtitle change time...
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooah212002
I won't respond to the synthetic issue as it appears I now have to do the research myself (which, I admit, I should have done in the first place, but i assumed someone had already done so and would respond accordingly with data instead of opinion).
I will, however, respond to the posters saying "get rid of the Bosch Platinums". I say "why?". I already spent the money, I can't take them back and I saw no fuel consumption change (check a few posts up where I admitted jumping the gun in my OP). Now, if going to the NGK Iridiums will give me noticable MPG improvements, then I can see dropping another $25-$30 on a new set.
The bosch plat +4's have a history of falling apart in the cylinder and causing some piston damage. The best thing when it comes to spark plugs is keep it simple. A lot of people were seeing misfire from the +4's which was causing the engine to pull and retard timing which affected fuel economy.
Just because you spent the money doesn't mean you have to be stubborn and still use them. You can return them if they are not working properly. I have done so in teh past.
As for the synthetic, if you are using it, there is no research needed. Keep on using it but don't change it before 6000miles.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
There were serious issues with platinum plugs and waste spark ignition systems.
The manufacturer of the plugs "fixed" this, but the fix still limits the ignition system.
The wasted spark eventually fouls the plugs then all the thing northernaveo said occurs.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
There were serious issues with platinum plugs and waste spark ignition systems.
The manufacturer of the plugs "fixed" this, but the fix still limits the ignition system.
The wasted spark eventually fouls the plugs then all the thing northernaveo said occurs.
There is no serious issue with platinum plugs. Seriously, where are you getting this information from? Are you making it up as you go? Do you have proof of this?
The only thing is that copper is a better condictor and thus has a hotter spark, but wears out faster. The only benefit of platinum is the wear rate. It doesn't help with anything else and it won't have a strong of a spark as the copper variety.
Iridium plugs follow the same path and is even harder, hads a lower conductivity, but its wear rate is longer than anything on the market.
There is no ignition system that will have any problem with an iridium plug nor will it affect anything other than plug wear rates. there is no damage, no issues and problems at all.
There is no wasted spark seeing the spark strength on a iridium plug is less than a platinum, and platinum is less than copper. Iridium is a poorer conductor than platinum, and platinum is a poorer condictor than copper.
It is that plain and simple and the misinformation needs to stop.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Quote:
Originally Posted by AveoRob
Hmmmm....I thought I said scientific. I don't think a forum website qualifies. Please explain the physics behind your claim that synthetic oil improves fuel economy. I understand about longevity and lower operating temperatures and all of the other benefits of synthetic oil, but please show me the empirical data showing improved fuel economy.
I know it's human nature to think you are getting better mileage since you paid all of that extra money, bit if there was a noticable, measurable cost effective improvement in mileage, don't you think they would advertise it?
Read the forum, all they do is talk about oil. I am not going to do the work for you. That site has the most infomation on oil on the internet. It is full of scientific discussion from industry reps and oil testing scientists from around the US.
Actually, they do advertise it. And seeing the oil doesn't thicken as much and its kinematic viscosity allows for quicker warmup and better colder temperature economy and lower viscosity, it does make a difference.
Who advertises it? I have yet to see an advertisement (that wasn't followed by a legal disclaimer fully explaining the circumstances) where an oil company (in present times) has touted economy benefits for their synthetic oils (of the same weight as a similarly rated dino oil).
All those qualifiers are necessary, because without them, you could simply point out that Mobil 1 claims an improvement with the use of their 0W synthetics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
There were serious issues with platinum plugs and waste spark ignition systems.
The manufacturer of the plugs "fixed" this, but the fix still limits the ignition system.
The wasted spark eventually fouls the plugs then all the thing northernaveo said occurs.
There is no serious issue with platinum plugs. Seriously, where are you getting this information from? Are you making it up as you go? Do you have proof of this?
The only thing is that copper is a better condictor and thus has a hotter spark, but wears out faster. The only benefit of platinum is the wear rate. It doesn't help with anything else and it won't have a strong of a spark as the copper variety.
Iridium plugs follow the same path and is even harder, hads a lower conductivity, but its wear rate is longer than anything on the market.
There is no ignition system that will have any problem with an iridium plug nor will it affect anything other than plug wear rates. there is no damage, no issues and problems at all.
There is no wasted spark seeing the spark strength on a iridium plug is less than a platinum, and platinum is less than copper. Iridium is a poorer conductor than platinum, and platinum is a poorer condictor than copper.
It is that plain and simple and the misinformation needs to stop.
Wasted Spark refers to a type of ignition system in which the coil delivers spark to two or more plugs at a time, in different cylinders. The nomenclature is in reference to the cylinder which is not at the top of the compression stroke receiving a spark, which is useless to that cylinder. It's a "wasted spark".
Calling for someone else to stop delivering misinformation is best left to someone who is not also giving it.
There have been a few of your posts that I've read that you exclaim your view as fact, without backing it up with any references. Posts like the one above, where you claim that there is no wasted spark, are false and essentially misleading. In another thread, you claimed that there is no fuel cutoff mode in vehicles, which is also blatantly false.
So, likewise, someone else could profess to you that the misinformation needs to cease.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
dont directly quote me on this (northernaveo i know you will to catch a mistake, you seem to have little else to do.)
waste spark is an ignition system with one coil for every two plugs as mentioned. used by every manufacturer at some point. its very efficient. By firing on the exhaust stroke there was an issue with platinum plugs, i can't remember if it was polarity, or excessive heat, whatever, But the original platinum plug would only last a few thousand miles from what was happening. Manufacturers "solved" this with either a resister or diode in the plug, i dont remember which. Keeping it from pulsing on the waste spark something along those lines as a solution. From what i have seen from that is the resistance of the circuit on the waste spark can be transferred to the compression spark side, meaning neither gets a full ignition spark, which eventually leads to a misfire and a cel, poorly running engine
Look into it, it is in history more than a current problem.. but i still hear/see lots of high end cars come in not running correctly because they were talked into the platinum plug special while attempting their own tune up.
i think i am going to head back over to aveonetwork now..
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Who advertises it? I have yet to see an advertisement (that wasn't followed by a legal disclaimer fully explaining the circumstances) where an oil company (in present times) has touted economy benefits for their synthetic oils (of the same weight as a similarly rated dino oil).
All those qualifiers are necessary, because without them, you could simply point out that Mobil 1 claims an improvement with the use of their 0W synthetics.
Just....wow..... You obviously have no idea what a synthetic oil is and the protection and lubricational benefits of a Group 5 PAO based motor does do you.
You know nothing about synthetics but you retraction is that there isn't some advertsiement where they state fuel economy benefits?
You are just getting ridiculous. Again, go here (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php) and learn something before you blow out more ignorant opionion based on what you don't know about synthetic oil.
Just fess up and just say you don't want to use synthetic, but you don't know anything about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Wasted Spark refers to a type of ignition system in which the coil delivers spark to two or more plugs at a time, in different cylinders. The nomenclature is in reference to the cylinder which is not at the top of the compression stroke receiving a spark, which is useless to that cylinder. It's a "wasted spark".
Calling for someone else to stop delivering misinformation is best left to someone who is not also giving it.
There have been a few of your posts that I've read that you exclaim your view as fact, without backing it up with any references. Posts like the one above, where you claim that there is no wasted spark, are false and essentially misleading. In another thread, you claimed that there is no fuel cutoff mode in vehicles, which is also blatantly false.
so what about you claiming that the Aveo came with synthetic oil in the tranny as stock? How about that BS you spread right? I called you out on it and I was right.
Platinum plugs do not waste spark nor do they hurt coil packs or ignition systems. It is pure BS. All they do is wear longer and can be inserted into any vehicle that uses standard copper plugs and want to not have to change them as often. That is the only difference.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic (and Bosch Platinum +4's)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
dont directly quote me on this (northernaveo i know you will to catch a mistake, you seem to have little else to do.)
waste spark is an ignition system with one coil for every two plugs as mentioned. used by every manufacturer at some point. its very efficient. By firing on the exhaust stroke there was an issue with platinum plugs, i can't remember if it was polarity, or excessive heat, whatever, But the original platinum plug would only last a few thousand miles from what was happening. Manufacturers "solved" this with either a resister or diode in the plug, i dont remember which. Keeping it from pulsing on the waste spark something along those lines as a solution. From what i have seen from that is the resistance of the circuit on the waste spark can be transferred to the compression spark side, meaning neither gets a full ignition spark, which eventually leads to a misfire and a cel, poorly running engine
Look into it, it is in history more than a current problem.. but i still hear/see lots of high end cars come in not running correctly because they were talked into the platinum plug special while attempting their own tune up.
i think i am going to head back over to aveonetwork now..
This is the thing, this had NOTHING to do with platinum plugs which is what you stated was the reason. Resistor plugs were made decades ago even before platinum plug were even mass produced.
They hurt nothing on an engine today and will not hurt or effect anythign related to today's ignition system.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernAveo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Who advertises it? I have yet to see an advertisement (that wasn't followed by a legal disclaimer fully explaining the circumstances) where an oil company (in present times) has touted economy benefits for their synthetic oils (of the same weight as a similarly rated dino oil).
All those qualifiers are necessary, because without them, you could simply point out that Mobil 1 claims an improvement with the use of their 0W synthetics.
Just....wow..... You obviously have no idea what a synthetic oil is and the protection and lubricational benefits of a Group 5 PAO based motor does do you.
You know nothing about synthetics but you retraction is that there isn't some advertsiement where they state fuel economy benefits?
You are just getting ridiculous. Again, go here (
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php) and learn something before you blow out more ignorant opionion based on what you don't know about synthetic oil.
Just fess up and just say you don't want to use synthetic, but you don't know anything about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Wasted Spark refers to a type of ignition system in which the coil delivers spark to two or more plugs at a time, in different cylinders. The nomenclature is in reference to the cylinder which is not at the top of the compression stroke receiving a spark, which is useless to that cylinder. It's a "wasted spark".
Calling for someone else to stop delivering misinformation is best left to someone who is not also giving it.
There have been a few of your posts that I've read that you exclaim your view as fact, without backing it up with any references. Posts like the one above, where you claim that there is no wasted spark, are false and essentially misleading. In another thread, you claimed that there is no fuel cutoff mode in vehicles, which is also blatantly false.
so what about you claiming that the Aveo came with synthetic oil in the tranny as stock? How about that BS you spread right? I called you out on it and I was right.
Platinum plugs do not waste spark nor do they hurt coil packs or ignition systems. It is pure BS. All they do is wear longer and can be inserted into any vehicle that uses standard copper plugs and want to not have to change them as often. That is the only difference.
Lower your heart rate, bud. It's bad for your blood pressure.
First of all, I do use synthetic oil. I use it in everything I operate, including my snow-blower.
Who said anything about synthetic oil in a transmission? You must have me confused with someone else... Maybe you should look at the name of the person who posted before demeaning someone with falsehood?
Also, noone ever said that platinum plugs waste spark. If you had actually comprehended the post, you would have understood that "wasted spark" is a type of ignition system which delivers a spark to a cylinder which does not utilize it, as well as the cylinder which should be firing at that particular cycle.
Wasted Spark Ignition System
I agree that BITOG is a great resource for information on oil, but I will not concur that the largest percentage of the data presented in the forum is scientific. The definition of scientific requires that the results be repeatable by any average Joe under controlled circumstances.
You also admit that platinum is a poorer conductor than copper, correct? Poorer conductivity leads to increased latent losses. Latent losses are essentially wasted electrical energy, burned as heat. The actual value for these losses in far into the microwatts, but that doesn't matter. Platinum (and copper, and any other conductor which does not transfer current with 100% efficiency) does waste spark. This follows in line with principles of conservation of energy. Some of the electrical energy in the conductors is converted to latent heat energy, which means that the amount of current delivered at the head of the spark plug will not equal the current delivered at the electrode. This, by definition, is wasted spark energy.
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Re: Worse mileage with synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Lower your heart rate, bud. It's bad for your blood pressure.
Oh I am sorry, did you mistake my words for emotion? Does someone being straight forward with you mean that they are upset, mad, angry or in a bad mood. In fact, let me set you straight. I am smiling here happy as can be. So please don't worry about me ok, you just focus your energy on yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
First of all, I do use synthetic oil. I use it in everything I operate, including my snow-blower.
I wonder why you use it, yet you argue that there is no benefit???? Wow, talk about a oxymoronic hypocrit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Who said anything about synthetic oil in a transmission? You must have me confused with someone else... Maybe you should look at the name of the person who posted before demeaning someone with falsehood?
Ah, my bad, there are so many people passing along bad infomation here, it's hard to distinguish one from the crowd here. Please accept my apologies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
Also, noone ever said that platinum plugs waste spark. If you had actually comprehended the post, you would have understood that "wasted spark" is a type of ignition system which delivers a spark to a cylinder which does not utilize it, as well as the cylinder which should be firing at that particular cycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
There were serious issues with platinum plugs and waste spark ignition systems.
The manufacturer of the plugs "fixed" this, but the fix still limits the ignition system.
The wasted spark eventually fouls the plugs then all the thing northernaveo said occurs.
ORLY!!??? Seems like someone else said that exact thing here and related it to platinum plugs, hmmmmmmm.... Do you read at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
I agree that BITOG is a great resource for information on oil, but I will not concur that the largest percentage of the data presented in the forum is scientific. The definition of scientific requires that the results be repeatable by any average Joe under controlled circumstances.
LOL! This is the typical ostrich menality. I could provide you with lab results, testing and everythign and you would worm some BS excuse to discredit it. all you like to do is stick you head in teh sand or put your fingers in your ears and yes "LALALALA!" so you can't hear something that doesn't agree with what you are thinking.
Really convenient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unidentifiable
You also admit that platinum is a poorer conductor than copper, correct? Poorer conductivity leads to increased latent losses. Latent losses are essentially wasted electrical energy, burned as heat. The actual value for these losses in far into the microwatts, but that doesn't matter. Platinum (and copper, and any other conductor which does not transfer current with 100% efficiency) does waste spark. This follows in line with principles of conservation of energy. Some of the electrical energy in the conductors is converted to latent heat energy, which means that the amount of current delivered at the head of the spark plug will not equal the current delivered at the electrode. This, by definition, is wasted spark energy.
No, that is called a spark plug's heat range. The heat is displaced through the engine block and platinum plugs will heat up a little more due to the resistance of the platinum BUT they adjust the plaugs internal resistor to compensate for the extra resistance and thus lower the operating heat range.