Gauging interest - lower control arm brace group buy

Darin and I have been talking about doing another product for the Aveos. Looking over the car this weekend I thought about making a lower control arm brace. They're relatively simple items and therefore won't cost too much. They're also really easy to install (two bolts). Apparently a few users here have made their own over the years and have said it makes quite a noticable improvement. The positive reviews made it seem like an even better idea.

Anyway, we are in the initial stages here. I'll be designing a brace quite soon if it looks like there is some interest from you guys in buying a brace. We would like to do another group buy to get the price down as much as possible. I'm only guessing, but the price for a bar would be around $100. Ultra Racing does make a 4 point bar, but it costs around $200.

I'd really like it if someone could get me measurements on the 2009-2011s to see if the brace I design for the 2004-2008s will work with them too. If the brace will fit both, we can get you a discount for your help. PM me if you are interested.

Feel free to ask any questions.

So, who would be interested in buying a lower control arm brace?

Edit: Here is what the brace might look like.

http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1318267152

it fits 09 and up.. ;)

but the brace design will be important as the engine is "slightly" different underneath.
But the differences about the same from manual to automatic as well.

If you can design one the doesn't hang down, I would be interested. But otherwise, it would just be an anchor.

Unfortuantely it does have to hang down a little. Per my measurements it'll sit about 1" lower than the control arm mount. This is to clear the exhaust and engine mount.

yeah, thats what i figured. too bad my k frame is only 1 1/4" off the ground.

Does the 09+ share the same K frame with teh 04-08s? I'll be mounting to the front of the control arm mount, not to the bottom of it like the Ultra Racing brace does.

I added an image to the first post of a model I made.

I'd like to see this on the car... and I know this will make it more expensive, but would some fancy bends help give it more ground clearance? Or would it lose to much integrity to be worth installing at that point? I'm no engineer, these are just curiosities.

most people will not have ground clearance issues, and looking at the design i and assuming it sits higher than the ultra racing bar.

I'm at stock height on my 2008 with the ultra racing bars and manage to scrape mine once pulling in to a drive way that had quite a hump.

im on the same issue as you rabbit. Not sure if i would have enough clearance since i lowered my aveo pretty low in the front. But noob question here but does it just stiffin the suspension or soemthing? forgot what this bar was exactly for again

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Originally Posted by daug1502

I'd like to see this on the car... and I know this will make it more expensive, but would some fancy bends help give it more ground clearance? Or would it lose to much integrity to be worth installing at that point? I'm no engineer, these are just curiosities.

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I did some analysis on a bent bar design and it was only half as strong as this bar. That and you wouldn't gain anything as you'd still have most of the bar hanging down just as much as this one is.

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Originally Posted by reddemonx92

im on the same issue as you rabbit. Not sure if i would have enough clearance since i lowered my aveo pretty low in the front. But noob question here but does it just stiffin the suspension or soemthing? forgot what this bar was exactly for again

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It ties the front of the control arms together. They're kind of on mounts that just stick out into the air like a peninsula. I should have snapped a picture when I had it up on stands the other day...

So, I take it there is virtually no interest in buying an inexpensive bar that improves handling... I somehow find that hard to believe. What is the hang up here, or are you guys really not interested? Seriously, I'm looking for feedback.

I already have the 4-point bar, and i am only going down 1.5 inches, sorry.

I do not see the advantage in this bar to be truthful. VW has used this style of subframe since late '99 and there are very few people that run a bar because the subframe is already suitably stiff. Maybe these are thinner metal but they look to be very structural and solid.

Not saying that it isn't possible to stiffen the area. The MK3 VW's (93-99) used a similar subframe, but many people have used a bar with noticable results there. But my reason in using the post '99 VW's as an example is that the design is more similar.

the mk4 subframe design puts the cross section as part of what holds the front control arm bolt, where as the mk2-3 subframe (talking VW here) that piece is an add on. That makes it much stiffer by design.

there s also the distance from the mount to the cross section as a factor, ad rigidity by design.

this bar has been tested in a diy form and shown good results.

THats what I was saying. And the subframe on these cars seems to remind me more of the MK4 style subframe than the MK2/3.

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Originally Posted by Daox

So, I take it there is virtually no interest in buying an inexpensive bar that improves handling... I somehow find that hard to believe. What is the hang up here, or are you guys really not interested? Seriously, I'm looking for feedback.

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So tell us what this is and what it is supposed to do. Is this meant to be installed on the front or rear suspension? A few decades ago (when I was younger) I installed an add-on sway bar on the rear suspension of the car I then owned. It improved the steering and handling and stiffened the suspension somewhat. However, the Aveo is the cheapest car imaginable with a very unsophisticated suspension. It rides like a truck. A Porsche it ain't, and adding a bar isn't going to make it so. I have read that the control arm bushings tend to make annoying noises and fail prematurely. Perhaps solving that deficiency would be of greater interest?

I would be interested if it was just as good as the UR 4 point bar. of course that is hard to determine, but if you could show that buying a 4 point bar for twice as much as a 2 point bar with just as much effect in the car's handling, I think you would sell alot. People would buy your bar, sell the UR bar if they had it for half the price they bought it for, all the while keeping their handling and making their money back. Just a few suggestions, and i am know sales or business man, but if you added poly bushings to replace the old ones (since the buyer would be under the car working on the control arms anyways) and created a little package deal, that may help. Kind of a "i need to replace my bushing and why not buy a 90 dollar bar with my bushings" mentality. I think its a great idea, but unfortunately as seen above, lots of people already have the UR 4 point bar, you seem to be just a bit too late; I know you need to make money, but I think the only thing you may have on your side is if you can make it dirt cheap. I would buy one (i do not have any UR products) if w/ shiping i could get it for under 100 dollars, and so would many others who may be reluctant to spend 200 on UR products.
JR

in my opinion, this bar should be better than the ur bar, as it adds a new tie in point to stiffen the chassis, than just stiffening what is already there (all that is allowed by the sanctioning ur seems to follow).

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Originally Posted by Thymeclock

So tell us what this is and what it is supposed to do. Is this meant to be installed on the front or rear suspension??

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It goes on the front of the control arms and it ties them together (they are kind of jutting out into space). When you go into say a right hand turn, most of your weight is shifted to the front left tire. This means that the chassis will twist/bend the most (yes its not completely rigid) at that corner. By tying it the other control arm you reduce this bending and this keeps your tires planted on the ground better as you go through the corner.

Subachad was the first to make/put one of these on his car. He was doing autocross at the time and was looking for better handling. Here is a quote from when he installed his:

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Originally Posted by subachad

For AutoXing, I would STRONGLY recommend the front lower control arm brace. You will be able to take the same turns faster. I had a freeway onramp test which I would lose traction at 40mph and had to lift to avoid going off the road. With the brace, I could take it at 50. I could probably do 55 but ran out of balls.

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Ok so my interest has peaked. Where are we sitting with this now? Wait is this an 09 and up thing and no first gen fitment?

Rabbit assures me it'll fit both generations, so anyone with an Aveo should be able to bolt this right up.

Unfortuantely, we're no where right now. I have one person seriously interested and that is you. :)

where is intaled?... is like this?

GENUINE UR CHEVROLET AVEO REAR ANTI-ROLL 19MM SWAY BAR | eBay

No, its not a sway bar.

The control arm brace connects the front of the control arm mounts together.

is like this?....

GENUINE UR CHEVROLET AVEO FRONT LOWER 4 POINTS BAR | eBay

can you make a custom for rear bar?....

Here is a picture of one on an eclipse. This one would essentially be the same. The front mounts for the control arm kinda stick out into nowhere. Add the the brace stiffens everything up.

You can't make a rear control arm bar as there aren't any control arms in the back.

http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1323296895

No, excuse my bad english, can you make a custom rear anti roll bar?, more cheap...

I have on way,the 4 points lower bar, i need this bar too?...

Ultra Racing already makes a rear sway bar for the Aveo. I don't think I could have one made for less than what they charge which is only about $180. They not only are harder to design due to essentially being a spring, but it also requires high alloy steel and heat treatment which drives the price up.

The 19mm rear bar cost $270.00 usd... and the 16mm cost 255usd i don find it at 180 usd...

Ultra Racing - Rear Anti Roll/Stabilizer Lower Bar - 19mm - Aveo [UR AR19-191] - $179.00 : THROWDOWN PERFORMANCE, EBC Brakes | P2R | BC Racing | Techna-Fit | Unorthodox Racing | Megan Racing

Now, if we could get back on track about the control arm brace...

If it will definetly fit any generation aveo I may be interested, especially if the price is right. might I suggest selling it after the holidays, people may be apprehensive about buying something right now because of all the shopping. I know you said you havent gotten very far but have you come up with a more accurate price? I need to replace the control arm bushings on my car and would probably put this on as well while im at it.

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Originally Posted by Daox

Ultra Racing - Rear Anti Roll/Stabilizer Lower Bar - 19mm - Aveo [UR AR19-191] - $179.00 : THROWDOWN PERFORMANCE, EBC Brakes | P2R | BC Racing | Techna-Fit | Unorthodox Racing | Megan Racing

Now, if we could get back on track about the control arm brace...

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Thanks....

Well I'm interested too, if it give me more fenefit, i alredi instaled the ur 4 points lower bar, but the suspension is something area i like to perform...

I took a closer look at things while I was doing the timing belt. The dogbone mount and the exhaust flex joint look like they may get in the way when it is installed, but I do agree with the theory with this now. May even be interested in one depending on cost.

It drops below those two pieces.