handling and suspesion overhaul info
Topic: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion overhaul (Read 789 times)
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aveosam's complete handling and suspesion overhaul
« Thread Started on May 20, 2006, 12:50pm »
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alright my knowledge of suspension is MIA....so I just want to know what suspension upgrades will give a car more of a response with handling and taking corners while eliminating body roll? See i want power upgrades but i dont want to lose the agility. Now for the 04-05's the stock sway bar is 17 mm...now is that big enough and what will going with the bigger 18 mm sway bar from an 06 do for handling? (more oversteer?) I plan to get polyureathane mounts this summer from summit but i dont know if i should go with 18 mm sway bar and get the 18 mm mounts or stay with the 17 mm with 17mm mounts...ive heard that the 06 suspension is sportier so is that because of the bigger sway bar...i need advice and opinions.....what other suspension upgrades that can improve the handling of the aveo?
...ok now onto wheel and lower spring combos....still haven't decided what i want so I need some opinions....i am trying to find some lightweight wheels either 16x7 or 17x7....now what are some lightweight wheels in those sizes that can be found new or used for a good price? Now with 16x7 ill go with h&r 1.5" lowering springs which are easier to find but ive heard that tires to fit 16x7's are harder to find and more expensive...is this true? and if i went with 16x7 what would be the best tire size for handling? Now with 17x7 ill go with apex 1.4" 1.2" lowering srpings which are harder to find(and ive been quoted 280 cad for a set) but tires are easy to come by.....i like the 17x7 look but i willing to change my ways for a new overhaul plus 16x7's are cheaper but will paying the extra money to find tires to fit that negate the money saved with 16x7 rims? plus some light weight wheels like traklites only come in 15x6.5 and 17x7......also with comparing 16's to 17's, say if there ever is a bigger brake kit available would 16's allow enough room for that? so chime in and let me know what you think about that and dont just say do 16x7 or 17x7 but explain why...I am trying to learn
ahh lets not forget braking now..... I know some of you have gotten the drilled and/or slotted rotors...how are they working and do have they improved your stopping abilities? Give me some feed back.....now most cars when they are preparing for more power or have more power they go with 4 wheel disc....i too want to do this, but is this a wise decision to improve handling?
sorry to scare you all with this big post but ive been going through the process of changing my ways and i need help with planning my overhaul...the idea of turboing acutally happening has sparked some life into me
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #1 on May 20, 2006, 2:46pm »
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Stiffer springs will reduce the body roll. A lowering spring will/should always have a higher rate than the stock. This will also lower the center of gravity. A front stabilizer bar will give you a better turn in response and keep the car stable while entering and exiting a corner (body roll). Without better rubber any stiffening of the front will increase the car's tendency understeer. Any stiffening of the rear without better rubber will increase the car's tendency to oversteer. The key is to keep everything balanced.
Wheels are not so important, but rather the rubber that's wrapped around them. A stiffer side wall will reduce some roll. Bigger wheels will require a tire with a shorter sidewall, a shorter side wall needs to be stiffer so that all the air doesn't get pushed to one side, causing the rim to push to the ground.
Tie or tower bars wouldn't be anything to consider here. These are used to fine tune the handling. If after you have your springs/struts/tires on the car is still laterally "mushy" chances are it is the chassis flexing. This is where these support bars come into play.
Cross drilled rotors are pointless unless you're driving cross country on backroads or on a circuit. You won't notice a signifigant decrease in brake fade in daily driving, you shouldn't notice any brake fade in daily driving on OEM rotors/pads. Slotted rotors will however, increase overall braking performance. The pads dig into the slots giving you a much shorter stopping distance. It is said that slotted rotors will reduce the life of the pads by about 1/3. The drilled/slotted rotors that I got off ebay are great. My aveo stops much better than my jetta now.
Doing a rear disc conversion will give you much better control over the braking habits of the car. Since you're overhauling the rear system you'll be able to adjust the brake balance as you see fit.
Over powering the front will create understeer while under braking, but shifts the weight to the front for better cornering once you come off. With this setup you will be on the brakes earlier, but coming off earlier also. You won't be carrying as much speed coming into the corner, but you'll be able to get back on the throttle earlier. For clean dry roads this cornering technique is ideal. You'll be exiting the corner fast, which is the most important part.
Over powering the rear brakes will cause oversteer under braking. The weight will shift to the rear, reducing your overall cornering ability. This can be overcome by inducing controllable oversteer before you encounter uncontrollable understeer. You get on the brakes later and carry them into the corner. This gives you a high entry speed with a mediocre exit speed. This is ideal for roads/corners that don't allow you to get on the throttle early or as much. Using the previous technique would be slower, since you can't use your throttle advantage. Examples of such corners would be hairpins. Dirt, gravel, rough tarmac, and snow covered roads would also be places to use this setup/technique. This could also be noted as a "drift setup" for fwd cars. For rear wheel drive cars you would want to use the previous technique/setup.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #2 on May 20, 2006, 3:11pm »
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ok what is a stabilizing bar? is it the same as sway bar?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #3 on May 20, 2006, 6:34pm »
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Yes
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #4 on May 20, 2006, 7:14pm »
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ok i thought so but i didnt want to assume thank you....so if i get a 18mm stabilizing bar and get good rubber on my wheels, the understeer wont be as noticable? What tires do you guy recommend that are reasonably priced
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #5 on May 20, 2006, 7:32pm »
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I had a set of Hankooks, and they were pretty nice. "A" rated traction and 340 treadwear. But I REALLY like the Falken Zeix 512's that im running now. I have yet got them to screech in a corner. They are "A" rated traction and 360 TW, plus has a rim protector. Depending on size, Im guessing you run a 205/40/17, $64 a piece. I paid $105'ish. Go to http://edgeracing.com/
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #6 on May 20, 2006, 7:39pm »
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ok ill check it out i have hanooks now and they are good....now i need to find something light in weight for wheels
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #7 on May 20, 2006, 10:37pm »
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Stiffening up the front will increase the car's tendency to understeer. Tires with more grip can be used to counteract this, however the tendency is still there. It's a matter of adjusting your driving habits to make use of the extra stability in a manner in which you can get a faster corner exit speed.
As for daily driving, you should never be going this fast into a corner anyways. However, in an emergency situation, if you're going to fast instead of the body rolling and the car following shortly after, you'll simply slide straight into whatever you're trying to avoid. This is where the grippier tires come in, however I would never recommend stiffening a daily car this much.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #8 on May 20, 2006, 11:59pm »
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May 20, 2006, 10:37pm, exodus wrote:Stiffening up the front will increase the car's tendency to understeer. Tires with more grip can be used to counteract this, however the tendency is still there. It's a matter of adjusting your driving habits to make use of the extra stability in a manner in which you can get a faster corner exit speed.
As for daily driving, you should never be going this fast into a corner anyways. However, in an emergency situation, if you're going to fast instead of the body rolling and the car following shortly after, you'll simply slide straight into whatever you're trying to avoid. This is where the grippier tires come in, however I would never recommend stiffening a daily car this much.
alright i guess ill have to get the 18mm bar and 18mm polyureathane mounts and test it out to see if i like it....unless some one else has driven aveos with both and could share some feed back on this
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #9 on May 21, 2006, 6:27am »
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May 20, 2006, 7:32pm, aveoike wrote:I had a set of Hankooks, and they were pretty nice. "A" rated traction and 340 treadwear. But I REALLY like the Falken Zeix 512's that im running now. I have yet got them to screech in a corner. They are "A" rated traction and 360 TW, plus has a rim protector. Depending on size, Im guessing you run a 205/40/17, $64 a piece. I paid $105'ish. Go to http://edgeracing.com/
You have never driven on a track have you? I went through a set of these to the point they were undriveable after 2 days at willow springs.
Check out some Kumho MX or some Falcon Azenis. The MX will last you a couple years so long as you're not tracking the car.
Now as for the front swaybar stiffer = understeer, that's not always true. You take a stock aveo and put polyurethane swaybar bushings on the front and it will have LESS understeer. There is a point where making the swaybar stiffer keeps the wheels flatter giving you MORE grip in the front and the end result is in my case a neutral aveo that if you brake mid turn, you can actually get the rear to step out.
Most of your other info was pretty good, I will give you that. Thing is, it sounds like you are reciting theory have you had a chance to track or autoX your aveo?
I apologize if this post comes accross offensive, that's not my intent. I just don't like to see bad info on this board and there's kind of a lot.
Chad
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #10 on May 21, 2006, 10:28am »
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May 21, 2006, 6:27am, subachad wrote:
May 20, 2006, 7:32pm, aveoike wrote:I had a set of Hankooks, and they were pretty nice. "A" rated traction and 340 treadwear. But I REALLY like the Falken Zeix 512's that im running now. I have yet got them to screech in a corner. They are "A" rated traction and 360 TW, plus has a rim protector. Depending on size, Im guessing you run a 205/40/17, $64 a piece. I paid $105'ish. Go to http://edgeracing.com/
You have never driven on a track have you? I went through a set of these to the point they were undriveable after 2 days at willow springs.
Check out some Kumho MX or some Falcon Azenis. The MX will last you a couple years so long as you're not tracking the car.
Now as for the front swaybar stiffer = understeer, that's not always true. You take a stock aveo and put polyurethane swaybar bushings on the front and it will have LESS understeer. There is a point where making the swaybar stiffer keeps the wheels flatter giving you MORE grip in the front and the end result is in my case a neutral aveo that if you brake mid turn, you can actually get the rear to step out.
Most of your other info was pretty good, I will give you that. Thing is, it sounds like you are reciting theory have you had a chance to track or autoX your aveo?
I apologize if this post comes accross offensive, that's not my intent. I just don't like to see bad info on this board and there's kind of a lot.
Chad
so do you think just polyurethane mounts with the 17 mm is enough?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #11 on May 22, 2006, 1:02am »
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No, I dont take it to the track. And you say "I just don't like to see bad info on this board and there's kind of a lot." This is not bad info, I didnt say I used it for track, and I have only had the tires a month. I was giving my opinion on the tires that I have, and I like them. I did not say "yes these are the best" "get them". Plus any tire on the track wears out fast, no matter what brand.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #12 on May 22, 2006, 10:45am »
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alright I think I am going to go with the 17mm sway bar with polyurethane mounts for now and maybe if down the road I run into some extra cash I will get one to see how it does.....Now does anyone know of some good light weight wheels...i was looking at motegi traklites and various 5zigen wheels...are they any other light weight wheels that you guys know of?
...alright I think I have narrowed down the wheels to 5zigen FN01r-c 17x7 or 16x7 and Black Racing Pro-N1 16x7
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #13 on May 22, 2006, 11:46am »
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would 1 mm do much difrence?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #14 on May 22, 2006, 12:45pm »
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May 22, 2006, 11:46am, Denis wrote:would 1 mm do much difrence?
thats what i was trying to figure out, but I talked to aveohotrod and he said that it seemed a little better but not enough to spend the cash on for just 1 mm
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #15 on May 22, 2006, 1:34pm »
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heres pictures of the 5zigen fn01r-c's:
17x7 =16.5lbs at $188/wheel
16x7 =14.5lbs at 172/wheel
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #16 on May 22, 2006, 6:54pm »
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Yeah the stiffer bushings are working for me, but again I don't have my 16's on yet. this weekend. wheels will be done weds night. then have them mounted friday.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #17 on May 22, 2006, 9:50pm »
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May 22, 2006, 6:54pm, Brian5475E wrote:Yeah the stiffer bushings are working for me, but again I don't have my 16's on yet. this weekend. wheels will be done weds night. then have them mounted friday.
alright get some pictures...are they going to be black rims? because I am really considering going with 16x7 fn01r-c's and h&r springs but i dont know how they will look size wise
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #18 on May 22, 2006, 10:24pm »
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Yeah satin black
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #19 on May 23, 2006, 9:15am »
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alright if i go with 16x7's what tires size should i go with that would be the best for handling and acceleration? Also can anyone with h&r spring and 16's tell me how far off the ground the front bumper sits and the sideskirts right before the back wheels?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #20 on May 23, 2006, 3:23pm »
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god I want the 17's so bad! this owner says the 17's weigh 15lbs. I want the 17's only is the H&R springs will fit with them without rubbing...does anyone know if it will work?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #21 on May 25, 2006, 2:32pm »
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May 23, 2006, 9:15am, AveoSam wrote:alright if i go with 16x7's what tires size should i go with that would be the best for handling and acceleration? Also can anyone with h&r spring and 16's tell me how far off the ground the front bumper sits and the sideskirts right before the back wheels?
Toyo Proxes RA-1. But if you want them to last more than a year, some azenis 615's
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #22 on May 25, 2006, 5:52pm »
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hey sam,my 16x7's with the H&R's=front bumper is 7 1/2 from the ground and my rear side skirt right in front of the tire is 8 inches even.i have 205/40 tires and all 4 tires are roughly 2 inches from the wells.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #23 on May 25, 2006, 7:17pm »
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May 25, 2006, 5:52pm, chris wrote:hey sam,my 16x7's with the H&R's=front bumper is 7 1/2 from the ground and my rear side skirt right in front of the tire is 8 inches even.i have 205/40 tires and all 4 tires are roughly 2 inches from the wells.
hey thanks for the information man
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #24 on May 25, 2006, 9:26pm »
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no prob man,hope it helped.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #25 on May 25, 2006, 9:40pm »
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yea i am just trying to figure out the wheel gap with 17's.....i think the wheel gap would just be 1/2inch smaller but the right height would be 1/2 taller...the thing about these wheels are that the difference between 17's and 16's looks like a lot....it is killing me about the decision, but I think I am going to try and eye up my eclipse gs wheels on there because they are that style and are 16's
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #26 on May 27, 2006, 5:51am »
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The falcons are fine for rolling on the street, but if he's going to do all that to the car, hopefully it will see some autoX or track time.
Here is a snippet from Autospeed regarding Sway Bar stiffness.
<<Sway bar stiffness increases as the fourth power of the diameter. For example, a sway bar might have a diameter of 22mm and you are considering changing it for one which is 26mm in diameter. 224 (22 x 22 x 22 x 22) give a stiffness factor of 234,256 units. The second bar’s stiffness is 264 which is 456,976. Divide one by the other and you can see that the second bar’s stiffness is almost twice (1.95 times) as high, even though it’s only 4mm thicker! >>
Using this formula it's 1.27 times stiffer than the older 17mm bar. Or 27% stiffer. I wish I knew of a way to compute the polyurethane swaybar mounts, I suspect it's about the same. What we really need is a rear swaybar. We can do this by putting a bar inside the rear crossbar which would help keep it from twisting or find a swaybar that we can make fit, perhaps a Subaru XT rear swaybar which appears to be around 17-18mm.
The rest of the article can be found here, I would suggest EVERYONE register for the site. It's amazing what you'll learn by reading the tech articles.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2746/article.html
Chad
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #27 on May 27, 2006, 2:23pm »
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May 27, 2006, 5:51am, subachad wrote:The falcons are fine for rolling on the street, but if he's going to do all that to the car, hopefully it will see some autoX or track time.
Here is a snippet from Autospeed regarding Sway Bar stiffness.
<<Sway bar stiffness increases as the fourth power of the diameter. For example, a sway bar might have a diameter of 22mm and you are considering changing it for one which is 26mm in diameter. 224 (22 x 22 x 22 x 22) give a stiffness factor of 234,256 units. The second bar’s stiffness is 264 which is 456,976. Divide one by the other and you can see that the second bar’s stiffness is almost twice (1.95 times) as high, even though it’s only 4mm thicker! >>
Using this formula it's 1.27 times stiffer than the older 17mm bar. Or 27% stiffer. I wish I knew of a way to compute the polyurethane swaybar mounts, I suspect it's about the same. What we really need is a rear swaybar. We can do this by putting a bar inside the rear crossbar which would help keep it from twisting or find a swaybar that we can make fit, perhaps a Subaru XT rear swaybar which appears to be around 17-18mm.
The rest of the article can be found here, I would suggest EVERYONE register for the site. It's amazing what you'll learn by reading the tech articles.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2746/article.html
Chad
thanks for all the good information....a rear sway bar would be a nice edition, but why doesn't the car come with a rear sway bar? is it because of the torsion beam setup?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #28 on May 29, 2006, 12:18am »
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which would be better for handling? 215/40/17 or 205/40/17?
215/45/16 or 205/45/16?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #29 on May 29, 2006, 8:17am »
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the 215's have a slightly higher sidewall then the 205's but they are also wider, i would go with the 205's
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #30 on May 29, 2006, 10:40am »
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215 and 205 are tread width. they have nothing to do with sidewall hieght . your series number determines that. like a 60, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25 those are how tall the sidewalls are.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #31 on May 29, 2006, 10:49am »
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May 29, 2006, 10:40am, Brian5475E wrote:215 and 205 are tread width. they have nothing to do with sidewall hieght . your series number determines that. like a 60, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25 those are how tall the sidewalls are.
do you have your wheels on yet? any pics?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #32 on May 29, 2006, 4:41pm »
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May 29, 2006, 10:40am, Brian5475E wrote:215 and 205 are tread width. they have nothing to do with sidewall hieght . your series number determines that. like a 60, 55, 50, 45, 40, 35, 30, 25 those are how tall the sidewalls are.
Your almost right, the 215 or 205 is the tread width or AKA Section width but it has everything to do with the SideWall height.
Quoted from http://www.1010tires.com/tech.asp?type=tires#sizing
"The "65"is known as the Aspect Ratio. It is calculated by dividing the section height by the section width and multiplying by 100. (In this example, the sidewall will be 65% of 215)"
When using the same rim (17") 205/40/17 has a sidewall of 3.22 inches and the 215/40/17 has a sidewall of 3.38 inches. These are both 40 series tires with different SW heights. My source http://www.1010tires.com/TireSizeCalcul ... ion=submit
So, Sam. I would say look for a size that is the closest to you original OD, this way the car rides at the stock height and the speedo is still going to be accurate our OD on the 14's is 22.74" the 205/40/17 is 23.45" But I prefer to find the widest section width possible which the 215/40/17 has 8.46" compared to our stock 7.28" but this also has a larger OD at 23.77. In my situation (for example) I have those 18's I have an OD of 23.92 that raised my car just over a half inch, .6 to be exact
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #33 on May 29, 2006, 9:59pm »
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yea i have finally made my mind up on what size rims.....im going with 16x7's because they are cheaper, lighter and it will be easier to get H&R springs.....I am still just having trouble with tire sizes right now....I think 215's instead of 205's will give me better traction but what will it do to my handling because the sidewalls will have that slight bulge? But i am pretty positive I want to go with a 45 series sidewall over the 40
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #34 on May 30, 2006, 12:21am »
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I had 205/40/16 on my 16" Enkei's. They were a nice fit and great handling, just the Hankooks sucked.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #35 on May 30, 2006, 2:42am »
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I imagine a 215/40 would have about the same as a 205/45. Someone use the formula above to confirm, I'm going to bed...
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #36 on May 30, 2006, 9:47am »
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i used that site...
-215/40/16-
Section Width: 8.46 in
Overall Diameter: 22.77 in
Sidewall Height: 3.38 in
-205/45/16-
Section Width: 8.07 in
Overall Diameter: 23.26 in
Sidewall Height: 3.63 in
you guys think i should go with the 215/40/16's? or should i go with 205/45/16's? here a few pictures of a civic hatch with 205/45/16's
i really like the 205/45/16's and they would only raise the ride height .2 inches but then i would lower it with H&R's so I would get 1.3" lowering in the front and 1.2" lowering in the back
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #37 on May 30, 2006, 11:49pm »
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IMO I'd go with the 215/40/16. Because its only .03 (1/32) bigger, which will only raise the car .015 (1/64). Has .25 (1/4) smaller sidewall and .39 (3/8)wider section width.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #38 on May 31, 2006, 12:16am »
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yea i know but I dont want the donut wheel look...ive been looking around and I have seen a few circuit built civic hatches running the 205/45/16....god i thought i was past the hard decision lol ....i guess i could go with 205/45/16's and if i dont like once the tread wears i can go 215/40/16's
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #39 on May 31, 2006, 2:39am »
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May 31, 2006, 12:16am, AveoSam wrote:yea i know but I dont want the donut wheel look
It defiantly doesn't look like a donut. My 35's are some rubber-bands but the 40's got plenty of meat on them. I got a 2.96" SW (that looks like 1.5" on the ground) its .42 inches smaller than the 215/40, and the 205/45's are only .25" bigger and you wont even feel the difference once they hit the road. IMO, staying as close as possible to the original OD is the most important and safest. Plus this will be safe if you get a blowout you can put the donut on it or run the stockers and it will ride even.
You are the one making the purchase, you dont have to just make the call on my words. I am just giving you my experience in have the 16's on mine. I know others have there reasons for different sizes but this is how I make my decisions. By looking at it as logical as possible. And in sizing I think its all about keeping the OD the same so the car still functions exactly the same as stock. Plus, when I had my 16's, a bunch of people thought they looked like 17's because of how nice they fit the car. Which is what you wanted in the begining, 17 inch.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #40 on May 31, 2006, 2:49am »
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May 31, 2006, 2:39am, aveoike wrote:IMO, staying as close as possible to the original OD is the most important and safest. Plus this will be safe if you get a blowout you can put the donut on it or run the stockers and it will ride even.
And in sizing I think its all about keeping the OD the same so the car still functions exactly the same as stock.
I dont want to sound like a hypocrite, I went over an inch bigger OD, but I'm not tracking mine I'm going for "All Show No Go". I'm not too worried about the speedo being accurate nor if I get a blowout. If I get a blowout I'm not gonna drive around on donuts, I got 2 cars.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #41 on May 31, 2006, 12:47pm »
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May 27, 2006, 2:23pm, AveoSam wrote:
May 27, 2006, 5:51am, subachad wrote:The falcons are fine for rolling on the street, but if he's going to do all that to the car, hopefully it will see some autoX or track time.
Here is a snippet from Autospeed regarding Sway Bar stiffness.
<<Sway bar stiffness increases as the fourth power of the diameter. For example, a sway bar might have a diameter of 22mm and you are considering changing it for one which is 26mm in diameter. 224 (22 x 22 x 22 x 22) give a stiffness factor of 234,256 units. The second bar’s stiffness is 264 which is 456,976. Divide one by the other and you can see that the second bar’s stiffness is almost twice (1.95 times) as high, even though it’s only 4mm thicker! >>
Using this formula it's 1.27 times stiffer than the older 17mm bar. Or 27% stiffer. I wish I knew of a way to compute the polyurethane swaybar mounts, I suspect it's about the same. What we really need is a rear swaybar. We can do this by putting a bar inside the rear crossbar which would help keep it from twisting or find a swaybar that we can make fit, perhaps a Subaru XT rear swaybar which appears to be around 17-18mm.
The rest of the article can be found here, I would suggest EVERYONE register for the site. It's amazing what you'll learn by reading the tech articles.
http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_2746/article.html
Chad
thanks for all the good information....a rear sway bar would be a nice edition, but why doesn't the car come with a rear sway bar? is it because of the torsion beam setup?
a question I asked earlier that just got buried under all my tire talk.....also would it be possible to add one or be beneficial
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #42 on May 31, 2006, 5:59pm »
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It would be possible. As to it being beneficial... that's really up to the driver. I for one enjoy this wierd suspension setup.
Like I always say, though: A stabilizer bar should be there for just that. Stabilizing. The number one component that should be responsible for body roll is the springs. Use a stabilizer bar to fine tune the body roll when you feel overall balance is obtained.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #43 on May 31, 2006, 9:38pm »
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May 31, 2006, 5:59pm, exodus wrote:It would be possible. As to it being beneficial... that's really up to the driver. I for one enjoy this wierd suspension setup.
Like I always say, though: A stabilizer bar should be there for just that. Stabilizing. The number one component that should be responsible for body roll is the springs. Use a stabilizer bar to fine tune the body roll when you feel overall balance is obtained.
alright I think I will do that...just wait and see how the body rool and handling turns out with the 16x7's and h&r springs
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #44 on May 31, 2006, 11:25pm »
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In past projects I have had great result from just replacing stock anti-sway bar bushings with polyurethane. If you really want something serious, check out metal bushings too. Check out this site for some interesting possibilities;
http://www.tlssteel.com/
Also, I believe our sway bars are hollow pieces (04-06). Try getting a solid replica, as that would provide more torisional rigidity.
Props to exdos for the stout advice here: tires are the most important item in the realm of handling and braking. As always go to http://www.tirerack.com to obtain good advice (and selection) on tires. They also have a great set of Hawk street pads for cheap.
We have a 4x100 bolt pattern with a 45 mm offset, so wheel choices are really limited. Try 91ish Escort GT alloys (slicer pattern). These are light, cheap, and relativley abundant.
Somebody has to find out what dampers the Swift rally team is using. . .
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #45 on May 31, 2006, 11:26pm »
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Frick. Forgive me. . .
Proper spelling = Exodus
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #46 on May 31, 2006, 11:48pm »
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May 31, 2006, 11:25pm, commuterspecial wrote:In past projects I have had great result from just replacing stock anti-sway bar bushings with polyurethane. If you really want something serious, check out metal bushings too. Check out this site for some interesting possibilities;
http://www.tlssteel.com/
Also, I believe our sway bars are hollow pieces (04-06). Try getting a solid replica, as that would provide more torisional rigidity.
Props to exdos for the stout advice here: tires are the most important item in the realm of handling and braking. As always go to http://www.tirerack.com to obtain good advice (and selection) on tires. They also have a great set of Hawk street pads for cheap.
We have a 4x100 bolt pattern with a 45 mm offset, so wheel choices are really limited. Try 91ish Escort GT alloys (slicer pattern). These are light, cheap, and relativley abundant.
Somebody has to find out what dampers the Swift rally team is using. . .
swift rally uses proflex system for like 3+ grand....you can use other offsets too as long as u stay close to 45...i think the sways are solid though...I plan to go with polyurethane for now....I want a stiff sidewall but will a 205/45/16 sidewall be stiff than a 215/40/16 sidewall?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #47 on Jun 6, 2006, 9:30am »
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nice I found a rim/tire package with these wheels for $980 from wheelnext.com ...and they come with free springs if they have them for your car....so first question should I tell them I have a different car that they will have the springs for (they give you zenn springs) so I can take those and sell them to make the money for my springs? Second question what car should I use that has the same bolt pattern and offset? civic? what years?
Also the tires they have in the package are 205/40/16, so I am trying to see if I can upgrade them to 205/45/16 for some extra money
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #48 on Jun 7, 2006, 12:26am »
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1995'ish VW golf. Thats what car I used to order mine so I could get the package deal. They sent lugs and hub spacers, the lugs (obviously) didn't work.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #49 on Jun 7, 2006, 8:39am »
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Jun 7, 2006, 12:26am, aveoike wrote:1995'ish VW golf. Thats what car I used to order mine so I could get the package deal. They sent lugs and hub spacers, the lugs (obviously) didn't work.
did you get springs? i was thinking of doing a type of civic because i think they would be easiest to sell to but VW golf is a good idea too
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #50 on Jun 8, 2006, 12:40am »
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No, I didnt order from that company but I was explaining why I used a golf when I placed my order. I got them from edgeracing.com
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #51 on Jun 8, 2006, 1:16am »
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oh ok yea i found my wheels on there too but i can get them cheaper at wheelnext plus free shipping...i just want to find a car with 4x100 that they will have springs for so i can get my money oout of the zenn springs because after spending a grand i wont have much extra to spend
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #52 on Jun 12, 2006, 9:50pm »
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Alright my first step towards completing my handling overhaul has taken place thanks to one of the members on here, Teague. Also like to thank aveohotrod for tiping me off to this sale. I am getting my H&R lowering springs with that said, the poly urethane antisway bar mounts will have to wait till next paycheck since I need money for a haircut, a new license, car payment, and turbo
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #53 on Jun 14, 2006, 10:59pm »
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Alright I am having second thoughts about the 5zigen FN01R-C's because I have been reading alot about them braking and bending and since the cheapest package I found is $980 and they only come with 40 series tires....so one thing, not alot of protection with 40 series especially if they are prone to bending and secondly I dont feel like spending $980 on wheels that might bend or break easily only to have to spend $300 to replace one....another thing is I want to focus on the turbo project most of the summer which means I want to spend more money there so $980 dollars for just wheels will most likely not be in the budget....so I want to know what my other cheaper options are for 16x7's around or a little less that stock wheel weight...so give me some ideas please
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #54 on Jun 21, 2006, 11:24am »
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well just got in contact with teague and the springs should be sent out by the end of the week...now for some 16's...i will also be ordering the poly urethane sway bar mounts this week when I order the piping for the CAI kits from summitracing
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #55 on Jun 21, 2006, 8:04pm »
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if your going to get rims for a civic, make sure you get them for 92-95 civics, they are a perfect match, they are the same thing i ordered and they are awesome.
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #56 on Jun 21, 2006, 9:01pm »
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ok sweet...what rims did you get?
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #57 on Jun 24, 2006, 10:55am »
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hottness...fedex just delivered my polyurethane sway bar mounts from energy suspension, and the H&R lowering springs will be here on tuesday
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #58 on Jun 24, 2006, 11:38am »
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Jun 24, 2006, 10:55am, AveoSam wrote: hottness...fedex just delivered my polyurethane sway bar mounts from energy suspension, and the H&R lowering springs will be here on tuesday
sam, what company makes polyurethane sway bar mounts for our cars and wore they made for our car or do they just fit?
don't forget to post some pics
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Re: aveosam's complete handling and suspesion over
« Reply #59 on Jun 24, 2006, 12:29pm »
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Jun 24, 2006, 11:38am, Denis wrote:
Jun 24, 2006, 10:55am, AveoSam wrote: hottness...fedex just delivered my polyurethane sway bar mounts from energy suspension, and the H&R lowering springs will be here on tuesday
sam, what company makes polyurethane sway bar mounts for our cars and wore they made for our car or do they just fit?
don't forget to post some pics
they are universal 17mm ones from energy suspension. they are not made specifically for our car but they will work and from my understanding you just have to bend the mounts a little bit. I got them from Summit Racing for $16.69 and should be well worth it if they help with reducing the body roll. I will probably do a write up on putting them on with pictures but it probably wont be until I put my lowering springs on too which I need to find some 16x7 wheel before i do that
