Dragging Front Passenger Side Brake Caliper Diagnosed

This has happened at least two times before and anywhere that experiences winters and road salting one can expect a seized (Edit: not yet, seizing) brake caliper to happen from time to time (my sisters 4 yr old honda already happened on the rear calipers, these calipers, rotors and pads are 3 1/2 yrs old circa april '14). It is my understanding that if you get it at the start you will save your rotor and having to buy a new caliper. So I'm documenting this because it might help someone else who also has more time on their hands than cash to burn at a shop.
For those who don't know me I'm a beginner mechanic with a fabricators mind - think good looking geek but no idea that more than half of car repair has to do with rusty nuts/bolts, broken studs, hacksaws, penetration lubricants of all kinds, blowtorches (yes two, are better than one apparently), and the cutting torch. I love this car because its proven to be cheap to maintain and modify.
So its a passenger front dragging caliper we got here, doing it myself this time because there is access to a residential garage with halogen lights that warm things up enough to be tolerable. By jacking up the front, removing the rims, fully applying the brakes and then spinning the wheels its totally apparent - the passenger front tire not only is waay stiff to rotate but it makes a light scraping sound as it turns. Also the pad has 1/8" less chuch on it than the drivers side. Uh ooh, should have done this sooner, I say to myself.
First off, what this forum already has on the topic based upon my choice of relevant search keywords:
Brake Trouble
Replacing front brake rotors
Wheel Shake
Next up:
-to see if I can get this caliper to smoothly operate again, using the caliper tool and wood
-if so will do the same to drivers side caliper since its probably close to same
-lastly, to discuss bleeding not just the fronts, but the rears, and whether the brake fluid should be swapped out
Thats all for today, back to work.

HUHHHHHHHHHHH????

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By jacking up the front, removing the rims, fully applying the brakes and then spinning the wheels its totally apparent - the passenger front tire not only is waay stiff to rotate but it makes a light scraping sound as it turns.

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First, if you removed the rim, how did you spin the wheel? Also, If you fully apply the brakes, the wheels shouldnt move at all. And if you dont apply the brakes, having a little bit of drag and slight scraping sound on the pads is normal.

Also, brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture. Because of this, it should be replaced every 2-3 years as routine maintenance. You also live in Canada; road salt will do damage the the caliper pistons and seals overtime; you can get a new set of front calipers for around $100. Pushing in the piston might free up a dragging caliper for now, but youre better of just replacing them. You can also get a set of rotors and pads off Amazon for pretty cheap as well.

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Originally Posted by slayerized6

First, if you removed the rim, how did you spin the wheel? Also, If you fully apply the brakes, the wheels shouldnt move at all. And if you dont apply the brakes, having a little bit of drag and slight scraping sound on the pads is normal.

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Thx for the reply - to clarify I did a full brake application on the pedal, then releasing (ie. by myself) and then went back to the wheels, in order to get maximum friction on the rotors. Each wheel was spun using the rotor. I know what you mean about a 'bit' of drag is ok, thats how I compared the drivers side to the passenger side. Passenger side way more friction, way more scrape sound.
Brake fluid flush will be in the works, just not in this session. Have to yewe tuber it first.
Slayerized, I wish calipers were as inexpensive here as they are in the US but they aren't - all auto parts seem to be waay cheaper there I wish worked across the border, but point taken. Still if its just the sliders and some piston friction I can free up, thats good for now, you see if I replace the rotors and calipers, I'd really like to put a bigger set on, like the Brembos one other forum member that I can't remember had.
Heres what I got done so far:
Attachment 11281Attachment 11282Attachment 11283
This is the drivers side, which is working fine, thought to start with that side so now I know how much chuch I had to put on the c-clamp to squish the piston. When I over extended the piston I made sure to put a piece of wood there to simulate the rotor. It was not much torque needed on the c-clamp to push the piston back in, now I tried to 'memorize' that so when I get to the passenger side I have some sort of comparison.
Then I just wire brushed the shart out of everything, put anti-seize on the slider pins and spun them around and pushed them in and out, they definitely are more 'springy' now. Then re-assembled it all.
*Note - the pads had more wear on the outside one, the one with the marker on it. I was thinking to reverse them so that the pad wear gets more even but then since the rotor is mated to the pads the way they are I thought to put them back in the same way.
Off to do the other side...

There is definitely no need to put Brembo brakes or any larger, custom brake kits on an Aveo. The car itself is light, and unless your doing autocross or rally racing (which I dont know why you be doing in an Aveo anyway), there is absolutely no need.

Also, you probably damaged the brake pads by apply a c-camp directly over the friction material of the brake. And while some pads you can reverse from the outside portion of the rotor to the inside, or vice-versa, there are some you cannot. If both pads have metal shims on them, you can reverse them. But if one of the pads as a rubber shim, you cannot use that of the piston side of the caliper; the piston will wear through the rubber in a matter of days.

Good to know, about the brakes and the c-clamp, Slayerized - the drivers side piston compressed really easily and I didn't bottom it out hard so I hope no damage was done. I didn't apply the clamp on the friction side of the material for the passenger side, I used both pads and pushed from the back of the second pad. I fully compressed the piston and then pushed it back out about 6 or seven times, by then it was compressing as easily as the drivers side. Then I compressed it one more time, then bled a small amount of brake fluid out with 2 ppl, then pushed and compressed the piston two more times. It felt smooth again like the drivers side, so I know probably a replace should be done soon, it was good enough for now. So after finishing all this up the brake reservoir was lower than middle but not at the low point so it needs topping up.
I went to go for a test drive and when I backed out of the driveway I pulled the parking brake hard to reset the rear brakes. The thing is I had to stop and turn around as there is this terrible knuckle grinding sound coming from the rear brakes.
What happened to the rears now? Is it because they have to be bled too? Did I push an air bubble back to them or something? I also did notice there is a lot of free travel in the pedal too.

I could regularly glaze over my brake pads in about 5 minutes of driving.
Once they glaze the brake fade just its worse and worse until you fix it..

My aveo also kept up with most honda civic SI's in autocross events.. just saying.

if you bled the brakes you need to bleed the whole system.
Beyond that, I can't guess why the rears sound like they do..

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

if you bled the brakes you need to bleed the whole system.
Beyond that, I can't guess why the rears sound like they do..

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Ok I have time to tackle this tomorrow, I have 1/4 aquarium tubing, and a helper.. just wondering what order I should do them??
The sound from the rear brakes on the test drive was really terrible like a knocking crunching sound.. from both sides.. never heard it before. Well guess I'm pulling the drums too.

Bwaaaahhh!! Ok have to admit it - I forgot to torque the lugs on the rear wheels, thats what the noise was:rolleyes:. Bet I'm not the first one to do that hehe.. so a lot was learned in this task. For now alls I did was free up the piston on the passenger side, I'm going to order a new seal and install that next. I think this should do the trick for the winter.. so test drive today went fine, I think there is a tiny tiny bit of shake on the passenger side but its really minimal, I'm going to keep driving and see what happens, might replace that rotor (Edit: no rotor is fine because braking is smooth, the wheel is prob out of balance). Now that I know how to do the front and rear brakes I've got a lot more confidence to tackle something a bit more difficult, that control arm. And installing the new end link adapters rabbit sent me.
I want to close up with one thought about bleeding brakes - I have a whole roll of aquarium tubing and wonder - can't I run a tube from the bleeder up and back into the main reservoir, and then just pump the brakes as many times as I want like say 100 times? The tubing is large enough on the inside for the air bubbles to rise and that way the brake fluid could just be cycled around. Just a though for when I do that caliper seal.

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Originally Posted by northguest47

I want to close up with one thought about bleeding brakes - I have a whole roll of aquarium tubing and wonder - can't I run a tube from the bleeder up and back into the main reservoir, and then just pump the brakes as many times as I want like say 100 times? The tubing is large enough on the inside for the air bubbles to rise and that way the brake fluid could just be cycled around. Just a though for when I do that caliper seal.

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Personally I would get an auto-bleeder and replace all your fluid

http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/u...-review-16303/

I know I am late to reply but filling a tube of that length would be more brake fluid than filling the cup and pouring it in..

You start furthest away and work to the closest. I also do the cycle at least twice. You should only press the pedal enough to build pressure back up after opening the bleeder. Hold the pedal down, loosen and tight the bleeder. Was it a clean squirt, then move to the next. If it was weak, bubbly, etc do it again. move to the next wheel.

Thx for the reply guys, I found the dust boot, ring seal, and piston for 50 canadian bucks (37.50USD) delivered on amazon. Just waiting for the piston to arrive. So I see the brake bleeder creates a vacuum in the system, looks like a worthy tool. Ill post back after the garage session.. temps are down to 8F in the mornings now, yikes. All I want for Xmas is a heated shop :)

Boy really got behind on this! Cold weather made me procrastinate, plus the caliper has been working fine with the re-work I did on it. Anyways got some warmer weather here today and next two days, so going to tackle the caliper piston kit, oil change, and hook up the new end link adapters and front sway bar. I got a pneumatic brake bleeder kit for xmas that has the canister for the reservoir as well, so I can change out the fluid (its looks exactly the same as the Harbor Freight one that was mentioned on this forum).
Ill post up some pics tomorrow after the session, or however far I make it.

Todays summary:
-taking the endlink adapter brackets to a shop for carbide drilling, i tried for fun to drill one and it took over 45 minutes (aka thats some hardened steel and no drill press)
-learned a lot about the process of brake cylinder re-work, from start to end, but after whole process, theres a leak
-after realizing since i'm a beginner that if it worked on the first try that would actually be pretty amazing i'm ok with the day
-perhaps the seal in the caliper got pushed sideways or something, tomorrow gonna take it all apart and do it again
-the brake bleeder kit worked awesome, super fast, love it
-took some pictures so show the scoring/pitting on the caliper piston, and how i figured out to squish the new cylinder back in
-there could be a leak from the brake line connection as it was disconnected but i doubt thats the leak its in the cylinderAttachment 11317Attachment 11318Attachment 11319

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-the brake bleeder kit worked awesome, super fast, love it

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Glad you took my advice on that.

Yup, it was a good link you had there too. So today I did the re-work on the caliper - my first attempt at compressing the cylinder did not work because I had pushed to dust boot in too far and the dust boot lip interfered with the o-ring and I guess with all the pressure the cylinder was still able to progress in pushing but with the pinched dust boot and all it clearly damaged the o-ring for the main seal. A good learning process, I wanted to do it again, but its just too cold here to now to properly do the work. Hands were getting numb and it would require all the parts be re-cleaned and brushed, and blown dry like the first time. So I reluctantly bought the whole caliper and installed it.
All in all the work is good practice - I don't have a shop, don't even have a hydraulic jack, so its all pretty low key work. Car is low enough that you can't even get a jack under the frame points even at the front so I have to drive it onto some wood first. Point is, after the install and an initial bleed, and oil/filter change the car is running well. There is still some play in the pedal, I'm still figuring out how to bleed effectively without wasting brake fluid - I'm only bleeding a teensy bit at a time. The compressor I borrow has a leaking seal so its barely up to the task lol. Still, I'm happy with the work, maybe in the summer I'll try servicing and pressing the drivers side caliper as it will be next to fail. Over and out on this one!

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Originally Posted by xintersecty

Personally I would get an auto-bleeder and replace all your fluid

http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f94/u...-review-16303/

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Agreed. I used to work at an auto parts store as a shift manager for many years, and bleeding brakes really wants to have the catch bottle above the level of the brake cylinder. The little one man bleeder kits are great. I've used them myself, as I rarely have someone around to help. They come with instructions on how to use them, and are pretty easy.

As far as bleeding the brakes in an order, always start with the brake tkat is the furthest away from the master cylinder, as in the right rear, then the left rear, right front, then finish off with the left front. That will assure you that you've gotten all of the air out of the braking system, and not just moving front to back. That may be why you have a soft and spongy brake pedal. Usually an indicator that there is still air in the system. It's also always recommended that when bleeding brakes to do all four, and not just fronts or backs only.

Hope this helps.:D