Oil leak (should I spend money to have mechanic find it?)

Hey guys,

I have a 2007 LS sedan. I used it primarily during the harsh winters here in the northeast(other car is a Camaro convertible).

For about two years now the car has had an oil leak. It's minor; I literally put in maybe a quart of oil between changes. If I stop driving and pop the hood, I can see a bit of smoke from the oil burning off the engine or exhaust. There's also an oil smell in the car from the burning - my wife hates it, though shes hardly ever in the car.

I have a mechanic - small shop that a guy runs out of the back of a big professional garage at the back of his house. He said it would be a few hours just to diagnose it because he has to yank some parts out to figure out where it is leaking. He said he would have to pull out the a/c unit and something else - it seems to be in that general area. He mentioned another method - I think something about putting in some special liquid that helps show where the leak is. Regardless, I have been putting it off. Every time I get the oil changed they tell me I have a 'huge oil leak' (usually a Jiffy Lube type place). It can't be that huge because it's not losing that much oil and all other fluid levels are good.

I do hope to keep the car until at least March 2017. I'm wondering what you guys would do. Would you pay for the repair or roll the dice and see if you can make it as is? While I do drive it during the year to help keep my Camaro mileage low, I'm thinking about using the Camaro exclusively from April-November and making the Aveo a winter only car. We are hoping to move to Flordia in 2017 and I wouldn't need a winter car at that point.

I'm the type of person who likes to have stuff fixed and this has kind of been eating away at me. I would hate to have a major issue in the middle of winter. Yet here I am two years later and it hasn't gotten any worse. On the other hand, I would likely give this car to a family member so it would be nice to have it in respectable condition. I just can't get over the bluebook is around $2000-$2500 and the repair is likely going to cost $500 or so, plus I plan to sink money into shocks/struts and snow tires.

Thoughts? Comments? Advice? Thanks!

It sounds like you don't DIY at all and, if that's the case, you need to find a mechanic who knows more about Aveos. The most common oil leak on these vehicles is the valve cover gasket, which matches up well with the oil smell you described. That one is easy to diagnose, and would not be even close to a $500 repair. Another common leak point is the oil pan gasket, but you don't get any smell from that one. Less likely is crank/cam seals, and even more unlikely is the rear main seal. And with Iffy Lube doing the oil changes, the oil filter and oil plug being left loose can't be eliminated either. But regardless of which leak(s) it is, it should never be necessary to remove anything except maybe the timing belt cover, and also shouldn't take anywhere close to 2 hours to diagnose. Have the timing belt components been changed yet?

If the oil place can see the oil leak to tell you that you have a major leak, that tells me they should be able to see where it is leaking. It probably looks like a huge leak because a quart of oil between oil changes is a significant leak, and how long has it ben leaking in the course of a year that would be 4 quart of oil built of and smoking on the back of the block. Seepage is normal, every car will start to seep over time. But if your leak is bad enough it is smoking and smells burning. You have a real issue, and potential fire. Not to be an alarmist. But I have owned plenty of cars that marked their territory, and two cars that burst into flames while driving.

If you don't know how to fix it, get an estimate. No obligation from most shops.. especially if they are changing your oil or doing other work anyhow. Then you would at least know what is leaking. That special fluid is just a UV dye, you can see with a black light. I agree with AVguy, it sounds like your paying for it regardless. Do it sooner than later.

Thank you. 1 quart may be on the high side. Last time between oil changes I didn't add *any* oil, but my dipstick was at the lower line where you are just at the point of needing to add oil. I think it may look worse because no one was actually cleaning up the old oil that was sitting there from previous leaking. My guy did clean it up but I'm sure those Jiffy Lube style places don't bother. I do try to avoid them and I certainly avoid them for my Camaro.

I do plan to get it fixed but perhaps I will have to try another shop. My guy specializes in brakes and tires. He'll do other stuff but I think this is a little more than he wants to do for a one man operation. And yeah, I don't really DIY anymore. I used to do my own oil changes and other basic stuff, but we're in a condo now and I just don't have anywhere to even try.

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

If the oil place can see the oil leak to tell you that you have a major leak, that tells me they should be able to see where it is leaking. It probably looks like a huge leak because a quart of oil between oil changes is a significant leak, and how long has it ben leaking in the course of a year that would be 4 quart of oil built of and smoking on the back of the block. Seepage is normal, every car will start to seep over time. But if your leak is bad enough it is smoking and smells burning. You have a real issue, and potential fire. Not to be an alarmist. But I have owned plenty of cars that marked their territory, and two cars that burst into flames while driving.

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Well they can see the leak in the sense they see spots of oil built up from a leak. They had no interest in trying to locate the leak. As for the car catching on fire, yeah, my biggest concern is safety. I took a several hour trip recently and (thankfully) decided to take my wife's car. I was reluctant to do so because her car takes premium gas, but I just didn't have a good feeling about the Aveo for a long trip.

I'm getting the rear shocks and timing belt done next week. In a few weeks I'll have winter tires on and get that leak diagnosed. I'm driving my Camaro exclusively for the time being but that won't be possible once the snow hits here in New England.

You might consider getting a valve cover gasket quote from the shop that will be doing the belt job. It's nearly guaranteed that the gasket needs to be replaced at this point anyway, and I would give odds that it's the major source of the oil leak you're seeing and smelling. And you can also have them check the oil pan gasket as well. On the timing belt job - I'd recommend that you have all 4 components in the belt loop replaced. Those pulleys have bearings which can wear out, and any one of the 4 components failing produces the exact same disasterous outcome. Those of us who DIY replace the entire group of 4 with very few exceptions. A few more $$, but it's the best long-term strategy.

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Originally Posted by avguy

You might consider getting a valve cover gasket quote from the shop that will be doing the belt job. It's nearly guaranteed that the gasket needs to be replaced at this point anyway, and I would give odds that it's the major source of the oil leak you're seeing and smelling. And you can also have them check the oil pan gasket as well. On the timing belt job - I'd recommend that you have all 4 components in the belt loop replaced. Those pulleys have bearings which can wear out, and any one of the 4 components failing produces the exact same disasterous outcome. Those of us who DIY replace the entire group of 4 with very few exceptions. A few more $$, but it's the best long-term strategy.

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Is this an example of the kit you are referring to?

Gates PowerGrip TCK335 - Timing Component Kit | O'Reilly Auto Parts

The complete kit from Gates would be TCKWP335, which also includes the water pump, and there are other full kits on the market as well. However, I would strongly suggest that you let your mechanic buy his own kit (tell him you want all 4 parts replaced). The reason for this is if you bring him the parts and something fails, he then has an "out", and can claim it's the fault of a bad part that you supplied. OTOH, if he buys the parts, it's entirely his problem and will have to fix the mess on his nickel. He can haggle with his parts supplier if he wants to, but that's not your problem.

Thanks.

My concern with TCKWP335 is that the water pump is plastic and I'm reading the OEM is not. Big concern or no?

Thanks.

Dave

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Originally Posted by DaveA

Thanks.

My concern with TCKWP335 is that the water pump is plastic and I'm reading the OEM is not. Big concern or no?

Thanks.

Dave

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Nothing will get a bunch of folks to run around with their hair on fire faster than plastic timing belt parts. It's gotten to the point that I almost never participate in one of these discussions anymore, because this has become so much of a knot in people's knickers that I don't think there's any room for discussion. But you've been able able to carry on an intelligent conversation, and seem to be willing to listen to both sides of a topic. So I'll volunteer my opinion about this, and probably won't do so again for at least a few more years.

My take on this plastic timing belt parts thing is really quite simple. Everyone in the auto parts business is fully aware of what typically happens when a timing belt component on an interference engine fails. Bent valves means a significant amount of extra time and money for whomever did the work - usually a mechanic in a shop. And if the cause is a plastic part breaking, it's certain that the shop will go after the parts supplier for full reimbursement.

Given that the parts makers are obviously fully aware of this, why would they try to save a couple bucks by using plastic instead of metal, if there's even a small chance the plastic itself s going to be the cause of a major and expensive failure? So based on this piece of logic, it seems they must be totally confident the plastic is able to withstand any normal force applied by the belt loop, and will not fatigue over any reasonable change interval.

Yes, you will find multiple reports of broken plastic timing belt parts (which is where all of this uproar originates). But the problem (for me) with all of the accounts I've seen is that they don't show the broken plastic was the reason for the failure, and not just a side-effect of the actual root cause (such as a bearing beginning to seize).

I've done 3 timing belts on our Aveos using kits containing some plastic parts, and will not hesitate to do so again in the future, unless the parts makers change their minds and move to metal-only. All of this is of course JMHO, and there are certainly a group of folks who will violently disagree with what I've written. So, having seen both sides, it's over to you now to make your own decision.

I called another shop - this one a reputable local shop with some good online reviews. They too said it would cost money for an estimate to research the oil leak. I can try a few more places but it seems the estimate is going to cost me money. I have no problem with this but even the second shop said it could potentially be a few hours depending on the leak. My concern is spending $100-$200 for an estimate and then potentially another $1000 for the repair. I suppose it could be cheaper but isn't the main oil seal around $1000 to fix? Then I still need to timing belt + assembly done, winter tires, rear shocks. I can just see this costing me a few thousand dollars.

I get that some of this stuff is general maintenance. Yet we are still looking at a car that has a blue book of $2500-$3000. Here I am spending another $2000 on it. Who knows when the tranny or something else major goes. I know it's always a roll of the dice with high mileage vehicles. Just venting.

Guess I haven't been able to convince you the great probability is a valve cover gasket leak, and possibly a slow oil pan gasket weep as well. IMO, you shouldn't be asking them to diagnose an unknown oil leak. Instead, ask how much to check specifically for a valve cover gasket leak, and replace the gasket if a leak is found. Checking for a VCG leak is literally a 5 minute job - remove the engine cover, and then the plugs. If oil is found in the plug wells, the gasket has an active leak. They shouldn't charge more than $300 for this entire job, and hopefully it's closer to $200. If that's taken care of, along with the oil pan bolts snugged up, I believe it's HIGHLY likely the oil leakage will be over.

My regular mechanic said the valve cover gasket has a leak but that there's a more significant leak elsewhere. Perhaps it is the oil pan gasket as you mentioned. What's the labor involved with that generally? Thanks!

The cost for replacing the oil pan gasket would likely be quite a bit more than the valve cover gasket. That gasket is RTV, and there's also more prep time spent getting stuff out of the way.

I've had very good results with oil pan gaskets on multiple older vehicles by just snugging up the pan bolts (re-torquing back to spec). Professional mechanics generally won't recommend that approach because there will almost always be a slight weep/dampness remaining after re-tightening. However, this very slight weep is not an active leak (no oil spots on the ground), and will cause no detectable oil loss. Millions of older vehicles have slightly weeping gaskets, run for years, and have no problems caused by this condition.

This is a VERY easy DIY, but if you can't do it yourself, here's what you might consider trying. Ask your mechanic if he would be willing to re-torque the pan bolts to spec. Assure him your not expecting the leak to completely stop, and perhaps he would be willing to do it, for a small extra charge. You also want to make sure he cleans the block and pan, so that you will be able to determine if any active leak remains after all of this work is finished.

Thanks guys. I have it at my shop today for the timing belt/water bump/etc. I asked him to re-torque the pan bolts; he won't have an issue doing that.

Very torn on dumping more money into it on the leak or trying to get through the winter with the oil leak. Right now it looks like I will be able to drive my Camaro though a good chunk of December before snow hits. It looks like I may just have January and February where I'll be relying solely on the Aveo.

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Originally Posted by DaveA

.... Very torn on dumping more money into it on the leak or trying to get through the winter with the oil leak. ...

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There's one other thing you need to consider. If this is indeed the likely valve cover gasket leak, the oil is also leaking into the plug wells. This oil in the wells will eventually rot out the plug wires and cause bad ignition (i.e. misfire). Yes, you can replace the plug wires, but the new ones will also get trashed eventually. Money down the drain, and more aggravation.