Had time belt changed today at GM ( Before it blew up lol) Few questions

[Asuna]

So I took my car in at 101 000KM and had the time belt changed out. Here is a run down of what all was done and what GM said I need the advice of the VERY knowledgeable members on here.

1. [water pump.] They couldn't change it because, "They have to remove the cams and the valve cover so I need cam seals and a valve cover gasket" Neither of which did I have. So we didn't change the water pump, they said " It's not leaking so it should be ok".

2. [Timing belt, tensioner pulley] these were actually installed on the car so thats cool. One problem though apparently the Idler pulley I had was the wrong one so the old one is still on there .

My question is about the water pump install do they really have to take that much of the motor apart? The mechanic said it would add another 2 hours but we had no seals and I have to have the car for a 600KM round trip this weekend.

I plan on having the water pump and the idler pulley replaced ASAP but want to know about the gasket and seal deal.

All help is GREATLY appreciated guys/Gals.

[johnygogo]

I got my timing belt done at a private shop and never got the idler tensioner done. The mechanic there said it was ok. I asked GM about the water pump and they advised me to do it next time I change the timing belt around 200k km. I did the valve cover seal myself because it was leaking oil from the corner and it was pretty easy.

I still think the tensioner should of been done because they tend to fail. I'll keep an eye on it and inspect every now and then.

I also heard some people were able to change their water by bending the back cover but I'm a little unfamiliar with that process. ( I just wish someone could make a nice instructive video on it because alot of people don't understand how its done). There are some real nice pics on this site though.

[petrified.rabbit]

i cant see how the cams would need removed to replace the water pump.

the water pump is on the front of the block (or passenger side rear pulley of timing belt)

i am borrowing doax's pictures:



you can see the water pump is the only geared pulley left attached, and is entirely below the surface of the block. and has its own entry point into the block.
the head goes on top of what is shown. if they had it pulled apart enough to do the timing belt it should have been right in front of them.

it scares me that this is what the dealership had to say. no water pump in any car i can think of requires head disassembly. there are people on here with little to no mechanical experience who have done the timing belt water pump themselves using the diy, the fact that a dealership couldnt figure it out is unacceptable. I would ask for your money back or tell them you want it redone by a competent shop.

the timing belt job is overlap in relation to the water pump as well. it is 3 bolts, could not in any way be an additional 2 hours flat rate. the timing belt should be an included operation, so i have heard the timing belt is about 2 hours flat rate numerous times. so telling you it is 2 additional hours tells me they were charging you for the timing belt twice.

[byron84]

i cant see how the cams would need removed to replace the water pump.

the water pump is on the front of the block (or passenger side rear pulley of timing belt)

i am borrowing doax's pictures:



you can see the water pump is the only geared pulley left attached, and is entirely below the surface of the block. and has its own entry point into the block.
the head goes on top of what is shown. if they had it pulled apart enough to do the timing belt it should have been right in front of them.

it scares me that this is what the dealership had to say. no water pump in any car i can think of requires head disassembly. there are people on here with little to no mechanical experience who have done the timing belt water pump themselves using the diy, the fact that a dealership couldnt figure it out is unacceptable. I would ask for your money back or tell them you want it redone by a competent shop.

the timing belt job is overlap in relation to the water pump as well. it is 3 bolts, could not in any way be an additional 2 hours flat rate. the timing belt should be an included operation, so i have heard the timing belt is about 2 hours flat rate numerous times. so telling you it is 2 additional hours tells me they were charging you for the timing belt twice.

Good thing we have you guys here, what a great help. Some dealer stories are just crazy. Last time I went to mine though, it ended up costing a lot less than expected; he was somewhat honest.

I'll be doing my timing belt and water pump shortly (not going to dealer), and will definitely be making use of all the info on this site. I'm not all that handy. Everyone I've heard of that does the work themselves has always said to change the water pump at the same time and it never required extra work to do it, and this is across many many different cars.

[johnygogo]

On that picture the back plate is already removed. I think the cams need to be removed to get access to the back plate. The back plate covers the water pump... theres another picture of it but I can't cut and copy it for some reason.

[Daox]

According to this pic. It looks like you might need to remove the cam timing pulleys. But thats really not that big of a deal...

[johnygogo]

Thanks Daox, thats the picture I was looking for. I heard of someone loosening the back plate and bending it to remove the water pump.... but I don't recomend it incase it cracks or breaks. I really wish they would of went around the water pump so we can get better access to it, I don't see the point of covering it.

[Asuna]

OH I see what he was talking about now!!! The freaking plate covers the pump. Wow I've never seen anything like that before jeepers. . . . .. . .. . . . Well I guess I am going to be buying cam seals and valve cover gasket and take her back in. . . . . .. DAEWOO. . . . ... Yes Daewoo. .. .

Anyone have a picture of their time belt idle pulley? Apparently the belt and tension pulley were right but my idle on is wrong one. .. .


Man I cant thank you guys enough. REALLY big help to get me to understand what the mechanic was up against instead of me just seeing red. I changed out the water pump on my Mazda Mx-6 and it was really bad. But Ive never seen set up like that wow. AHAHAHAHAH

[petrified.rabbit]

even with taking off the back cover which i dont not taking into account, taking the pulley off the cam should not involve any gaskets. it does add some time though.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DJUzpXqacLM/S ... G_0856.JPG

look at the center bolt of the gear. you take that one bolt off the the gear comes off. i still do not see how you need a valve cover or cam seals. unless they want to do the cam seals because the gears are removed. but the gear should not ride against the seal, so it shouldn't tear on removal.

[AveoRob]

edited