2009 Chevy Aveo5 Died on freeway this morning

I was on my way to work this morning (about 20 miles into a 30 mile commute) and my ride just up and died on me while I was cruising at 70mph. Headlights went out but I believe the parking lights were still on as well as the stereo. There were no changes in the engine's performance leading up to this nor was there any noises noticed as it died (ie. bangs, clunks, out of the ordinary noises...). Coasted over to the side of the road and there I sat for 2 and a half hours waiting for a tow.

I have limited details at this point as I had it towed home, then jumped in my other vehicle and went in to work.

What I can tell ya:

-2009 Chevy Aveo5 with about 110k miles on it
-Timing belt isn't due to be changed for another 20k miles.
-I've had a check engine light on for a while now. I was told that it was the camshaft position sensor when I had it in to get checked. I've been putting off replacing it as the motor seemed to run just fine as is.
-When the motor initially died on the freeway, my head lights shut off but I believe my other lights remained on
-My hazards worked as I turned those on immediately
-After I came to a stop on the shoulder, when I turned my headlights off to the parking lights only, my headlights would turn on to the dimmer running lights. As soon as I'd switch back to headlights on, they would shut off completely.
-The interior lights and the stereo worked fine
-I did try to start the motor numerous times while I sat stranded on the side of the road with no response from the motor. I could hear a light tick when I turned the key but it wasn't the usual dead battery solenoid click. More like a relay kinda tick. Tried again after I got home and the same thing happened.
-I checked the battery quick and it showed just shy of 12 volts and that was after a good hour of listening to the radio and lights on while I waited for the tow. The + terminal has some crusty build up on it but not very much. The cables are tight as I could not get them to budge while aggressively pulling on them to see if they were loose.

So I'm just looking for some input from anybody that has any ideas or that have had some similar experience.

Seems to me that this is definitely electrical.

My plan this evening is to check all the fuses. Probably run up to Napa and see if I can barrow their code reader and see if I can pull the codes. Maybe disconnect the battery and let it sit for a half hour so everything can reset then see if when I turn the key, if anything happens.

I have read that when the camshaft position sensor goes completely, that this may disable the ignition system completely but not sure if that applied to this vehicle or another brand. Could that be the case with the Aveo5? Since it's inoperable at this point, might be a good time to tackle that even if it weren't the cause of this as it is throwing a code.

Any help/ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Chris

IMO this is some issue related to the battery. First try connecting a jumper wire from the negative battery cable to a good body ground point, and see if you get anything to happen from that. If that doesn't help, then have the battery tested with something other than a MM (which can't identify bad cells).

Thanks for the input avguy. The battery has been kind of my focus at the moment, that seems to be the cheapest and easiest starting point for the diagnostic work although I haven't really had much time to work on it. I hooked up to a battery charger last night for a couple hours and it went from 11.7V to 12.1V pretty quick but then stalled out there. After the couple hours, I pulled the charger and tried starting it with no luck. So, I disconnected the battery from the car and threw the trickle charger on it since I won't have time to work on it until this weekend. As of this morning, the trickle charger is still indicating that it's charging which seems a little odd. I figured with a good 10 hours, it would've been fully charged. In any case, I think the battery needs to go and get tested which I'll do probably Saturday as it turns out, the battery is 4.5 years old and probably due to be changed anyway. I was planning on checking the grounds as well and I like your jumper idea and will give that a shot too.

I picked up a code reader yesterday and plugged that in quick too. I got 2 codes, P0014 and P0420.

P0014: "is a generic code that the engine module (ECM) has determined that the bank 1 exhaust camshaft is more advanced than what the ECM has commanded it to be...".

Being that I knew of the cam sensor was going bad to begin with, am I correct in assuming that that's a faulty signal (the advanced timing) from the bad sensor? If so, that does seem like a likely culprit to shut the ignition down.

P0420: pretty much saying the catalytic converter is no longer functioning or possibly the O2 sensor is bad. I'm thinking those wouldn't cause the ignition to shut down although they will need to be addressed at some point in the near future...

Thanks again for the input and any additional input will be appreciated.

Chris

The voltage of a fully charged battery should be ~13.2v (2.2v per cell w/ 6 cells) so it sounds like it's toast. Take the battery to an auto parts store, almost all of them will test it for free, but I suspect you will probably be buying a new battery.

Let us know how it works out.

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Originally Posted by schwaber77

.... the battery is 4.5 years old and probably due to be changed anyway. ...

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Given your cold location, that wouldn't be surprising at all. But the diagnosing that you're planning to do is important, because there's always a possibility that the alternator is not charging properly. So trying to recharge is a good diagnostic step. The key in your case is that a charged and healthy battery should always be able to power the headlights, regardless of any other problems the vehicle may be having. If the headlights don't work, along with the no-crank, then either it's a battery-related issue, or there was some large meltdown in the fuse box.

Quote:

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.... Being that I knew of the cam sensor was going bad to begin with, am I correct in assuming that that's a faulty signal (the advanced timing) from the bad sensor? ....

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No, I wouldn't assume that, because there are multiple possibilities, and a bad sensor is only one of them. Normally what I would do is to check the sensor wires for ground, reference, and also if there's any signal. A scope would be required to confirm a good signal, but not many DIYers have one of those, so that test would need to be done by a shop. But in your case, I wouldn't do any of that until the shut down is diagnosed and resolved. If the reason does turn out to be a battery/charging issue, that could have many side effects, and I'd want to first see what happens after that issue is fixed.

Quote:

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If so, that does seem like a likely culprit to shut the ignition down. ...

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Although it might be possible (in some vehicles) for a cam sensor to shut the engine down, most will still run (poorly perhaps, but still run). And a bad sensor will never prevent cranking, so the cam sensor can't be causing everything you're seeing now.

Quote:

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... P0420 ...

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There is a small history here of cats going bad on the second gen Aveos, but again I would not do anything with this until the most recent problem is diagnosed and fixed.

Cool, thanks guys. I appreciate the ideas and the reassurance that I'm on the right path.

Battery is #1, then see if she's charging properly, and then go from there.

I'll have time to dig into it this weekend and will keep ya posted.

Do you have a way of jumping the battery? At least to make sure the car does not have any mechanical issues?

xintersecty - battery supposedly is fully charged now, I just haven't had time to spend out in the garage. I might have a few minutes this evening to check it out. If it doesn't turn over then, I'm just gonna yank the battery and bring it in to be tested with the assumption that I'll need to purchase a new one.


As I said earlier, that first day, I had the battery on the charger for a couple hours and the voltage went from 11.7V up to about 12.1V. I pulled the charger off, disconnected the battery from the car and then hooked up the battery tender. It took about 24 hours before the tender indicated battery fully charged. 24 hours seemed a little long to me. For being slightly above 12V to begin with, I'd imagine that it would maybe take a few hours to top it off. After that 24 hours, I did put the volt meter back on and it only registered 12.2V. Seems a bit low to me for just coming off of trickle for more than a day.

Might get time to try and turn it over tonight, if not, for sure by Saturday. I'll keep ya posted.

If you can jump with a fully charge battery that should indicate a cell is bad. And if it does start, you can then check for proper charging voltage.

Haha...just keeps getting better.

Got home from work, checked the Tender, showed charged. Checked battery voltage and showed a little over 12V. So, I put the key in the ignition and nothing new, car won't start, not really surprised. Left car in the ON position, got out and put the volt meter on the battery and within view of the windshield. Got back in the car and tried to start, curious if there'd be a drop in voltage as I try to start. No noticeable drop in voltage.

Now for the part of it getting better, I go to remove the key from the ignition and it won't let me... The key is stuck in the ON position and it will not let me turn it back to OFF to remove the key. The really baffling part (to me anyway) is that this vehicle has a 5 speed, MANUAL transmission. If it was an automatic, then we could assume it's the switch in the shifter but nope. I've tried turning the wheel all the way left, all the way right, e-brake on and off, brake pedal pressed and not, clutch in and out, battery connected and not, etc...and it will not let me return the key to the OFF position to remove it.

So I guess time for some researching before I tear the steering column apart. Luckily, we've got the extra vehicle but still, pretty frustrating.

Anybody got any ideas, I'm all ears and would appreciate the input.

Thanks,
Chris

Attachment 11239Attachment 11240

I think I'm into to something much worse than a simple battery...

I was checking fuses and I came across the "FANHI" 30A fuse blown in the fuse box under the hood. I didn't do anything with that fuse as I didn't have one of that style fuse on hand. I did continue to go through all the other fuses there and they checked out ok.

I then went to the fuse box inside the driver's side door and started checking all of those fuses. I there found the 15A "EMS1" fuse blown. So, I replaced the fuse. I immediately went in and tried to remove the key from the ignition and dinking around to see if there were any changes. There I noticed a little smoke coming from under the hood. I quickly yanked the fuse I just put in (which was blown and the plastic was hot, soft and warped) and then ran to the front of the car to disconnect the battery.

The smoke was seen coming from within the fuse box under the hood. Pulled cover off the box. One of the wires, orange, that goes to the 35A "ACC/RAP RELAY" was apparently the wire that got hot as the insulation started to bubble. I also saw a little smoke coming from under the ECOTEC cover, where the spark plugs are... I pulled the over from there and the plug had questionable wire, that may have gotten hot too or maybe the smoke just travel up the protective wrap around the bundled wires and that was the highest point where the smoke escape.

I don't have a schematic so not really sure what EMS1 fuse all covers or what the orange wire goes to and how that connects to the plugs...

Seems to me though, I've got a bad short somewhere and considering I smoked something, I'm afraid what that damage could be...

I will say, I do think I smelled a similar smell when I popped the hood when I was stranded on the side of the highway the other day, just not nearly as strong as what I just smelled.

This is turning into an f'n mess. Any ideas would be appreciated. Time for some research and start tracing wires for shorts I think. I love wrenching, not as much of a fan of electrical though...capable but not a fan.

Yep, this sounds like a nightmare for sure. Based on what you described, I think you're going to have to check just about every wire for damage. BBB Industries - TSB's & Wiring Diagrams has online wiring diagrams, and IMO at the very least, you'll need to check for end-to-end continuity. Hopefully you won't need to unwrap lots of bundles, but it's easy to imagine that being required as well, because there's no way to know what's melted and what isn't. And hopefully along the way you'll also figure out what's the originating culprit for all of this mess. Best of luck with this!

The more I read about 09 Aveo5's, the more I'm thinking about junking it...Cut my losses now before putting anymore $$$ into it.

Frustrated, I like the car, it's what I want for an everyday commuter car it just sounds like it could be an endless electrical nightmare...

I gotta do some investigative work before making that decision but it is what I fear at this time.

So if you were to cut(repairable/splice) the 'orange' overheated wire and install a new fuse , what are you missing?
Do you still see smoke?
Does the key release?
What is missing from normal operation?
As Avguy commented , there could be an issue within a bundle/short (which can be a nightmare) but if you can isolate the problem to a wire/sensor/lamp/fan/etc you may be able to eliminate some troubleshooting paths (not to say that the overheated wiring hasn't added to this problem).

You may be able to systematically narrow down your 'wire tracing' to a specific wire in a bundle and follow that path.
Mine is an 05 Aveo and I can pull the 30 amp FANHI fuse without any issue for starting/driving (yeah, it'll overheat) but this is probably a separate issue (perhaps an idea of the wiring status on your vehicle).

The EMS1 fuse is eerily familiar to some recent posts over the past few months.

Anyone on the Forum have an 09 wiring diagram related to the EMS1 fuse and the components it protects?
If so, you could try and isolate all of them, and bring them back one at a time and see which culprit is causing the issue (hoping of course no other damage has incurred), It could be an easy resolution, hoping that one system isn't reliant on another (that's were it gets sticky).


Cheers

Just seen the TSB link posted by avguy, good info (hoping I wont need it!)

cheers

I hear ya JB. I haven't done much with it yet. I've got a couple of buddies that might take it off my hands for around $1k (blue book is only like $2500). If they'll do that, I'll just take the cash. I could use the $ and the vehicle is not a necessity so I won't be to upset letting it go.

If not, then I'll start picking away at it and try to isolate the issue as you're suggesting. We'll see how it all pans out.

I do appreciate the input though from everyone and if it turns out I keep it and start working on it again, I'll report back or will be back with more questions I'm sure.

Thanks,
Chris

My 2007 chevrolet aveo recently had "stall on freeway, then crank, but no start" issue due to Camshaft Position sensor related issues. In short, if PCM does not get stable CMP position reading then it stops Fuel Injectors hence "no start condition". Assuming you have ruled out battery issues.

Here is what I would recommend you to do:
1. To verify if CMP sensor is good you need a cheap $20 oscilloscope and 5V and 12V power supplies (you could use regular batteries as well and connect ground together) and 10KOhm resistor. Then wire up everything as user JRE suggests here - https://electronics.stackexchange.co...ab-environment. You should see 5V when you move a wrench in front of sensor. Otherwise 0V.
2. In my case CMP sensor was fine, but there is some other issue (either PCM or circruit short somewhere else). You could remove EMS2 fuse and see if you have 2.4V (as I do) or 0V (what I think should be correct voltage) on EMS2 harness. See https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ain-relay-is-t for more details.

P.S. when removing CMP sensor be careful not to drop the screw because it will be hard to "fish it out". See this video for more details on how to remove sensor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3z43830FQQ&t=545s.

P.S. I don't have explanation why your key got stuck.

My 2007 chevrolet aveo recently had "stall on freeway, then crank, but no start" issue due to Camshaft Position sensor related issues. In short, if PCM does not get stable CMP position reading then it stops Fuel Injectors hence "no start condition". Assuming you have ruled out battery issues.

Here is what I would recommend you to do:
1. To verify if CMP sensor is good you need a cheap $20 oscilloscope and 5V and 12V power supplies (you could use regular batteries as well and connect ground together) and 10KOhm resistor. Then wire up everything as user JRE suggests here - https://electronics.stackexchange.co...ab-environment. You should see 5V when you move a wrench in front of sensor. Otherwise 0V.
2. In my case CMP sensor was fine, but there is some other issue (either PCM or circruit short somewhere else). You could remove EMS2 fuse and see if you have 2.4V (as I do) or 0V (what I think should be correct voltage) on EMS2 harness. See https://mechanics.stackexchange.com/...ain-relay-is-t for more details.

P.S. when removing CMP sensor be careful not to drop the screw because it will be hard to "fish it out". See this video for more details on how to remove sensor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3z43830FQQ&t=545s.

P.S. I don't have explanation why your key got stuck.

I have the same car as you, except mine is an automatic. I doubt that it has anything to do with the battery, unless you have more than one problem involved.

Since you mentioned the error code P0014, this might help:

http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/f82/t...olenoid-21310/

If both these solenoids were to fail completely, it might explain why the car won't run.