2009 Automatic... No Crank... No Start

OK here's a good one...
Every once in a while, my Aveo will not Crank. Now here is the funny part, to get it to Crank and Start, I open and close the back door.
What does that have to do with the issue??
Last time it happened, opening and closing the door was not effective but "flicking" those rubber boot covered switches a couple of times in the back door frame did fix it.
I know if I don't get to the heart of this issue it is going to let me down sometime and be a real no-start issue...

Any IDEAS?
Thanks

Sounds like a coincidence that is unrelated. The first thing to check is the battery, both the condition of it and in particular that the terminals be clean and the cables tight. If it isn't the battery, it's probably the starter beginning to fail. Next time it happens, try tweaking the key numerous times to start it. If it cranks when doing that, it's the starter.

[:D You bet, it does sound like a coincidence but I am having a serious hard time connecting the dots on this, the door thing works!!
The battery tests good, I hate to just throw a starter at it but shuffling the key back and forth has no effect so far. tried the shift to neutral and back to park too, no joy, but messing with doors??? then it starts! Crazy stuff.
if I could reach the starter easily I would tap it with a screwdriver handle and see if it would start then, I am certainly open to suggestions.
Thanks for the reply :D

the only thing remotely related to what you are describing would be the dome light powering something through a bad ground.

Anything that would make the car crank wouldn't be related to that?
The most i could see it benefiting you would be priming the fuel pump.. again not likely.

before you stick a starter in there, try bypassing the starter relay, check the ground and Verify the neutral safety position. Not just with the shifter, but the wiring.

the only thing beyond that is maybe some immobilizer malfunction.... my car seems to work without a transponder style key which I find weird and the remotes no longer work.... does this add any fuel to the lack of fire?

if you pull the clamshell off the column, you will see a immobilizer sensor ring around the key..

It very well could be an issue with the immobilizer. But i think in 19 out of 20 examples that I have read, the IMMO light flashes.
is that happening?

the only other things i can thing of..

power distribution. There have been some melted fuse blocks in the past perhaps your not getting power through traditional means.
Even possibly the ceramic fusible link behind the drivers headlight on the frame rail? Maybe turning on the door with is providing a ground for your issue.

Well I have tried replacing the starter relay... no joy
Cleaned battery terminals and pulled and reseated fuses and relay in the fuse box under the hood... no joy
today I cleaned the grounds on the engine block on the drivers side of the valve cover and pulled the bolts for the grounds behind the headlights and cleaned them up... now we will see?
Does anyone think it might be the ECM/ECU? it is fairly accessible, but is there any special setup or programming involved with swapping one? I can e-bay an ECM for around $50 it is an easy change, but I have run into vehicle specific issues before with computers.
Thanks for the help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jnadenicek

Well I have tried replacing the starter relay... no joy
Cleaned battery terminals and pulled and reseated fuses and relay in the fuse box under the hood... no joy
today I cleaned the grounds on the engine block on the drivers side of the valve cover and pulled the bolts for the grounds behind the headlights and cleaned them up... now we will see?
Does anyone think it might be the ECM/ECU? it is fairly accessible, but is there any special setup or programming involved with swapping one? I can e-bay an ECM for around $50 it is an easy change, but I have run into vehicle specific issues before with computers.
Thanks for the help!

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When you say "no joy", does that mean it won't crank at all any more? :confused:

When you say "now we will see?" does that mean it does crank all of the time now, recently?

I still favor the idea of whacking the starter with a hammer if it doesn't crank. Have someone turn the key while you whack it. That usually reveals the problem.

Well, no joy means no change in the issue...
it is very random, for example, I have taken to following the wife around before she tries to start the vehicle. Yesterday, all worked fine, today she went out to start it and no crank, the display in the dash went off when she turned the key like normal and the radio muted like normal but no crank. I had her open the hood and then before I could do anything under there it cranked and started, I am sure I could quit guessing and fix it if it stayed broke long enough to check a few things. Today I ran a new bonding ground from that lug on the side on the valve cover to the ground behind the drivers headlight, "now... we will see?" again!!!
I have had ECM/ECU modules do stuff like this to me before (in my Plymouth NEON) but I can't help but feel this is a simple bad connection issue, intermittent wiring issues can be very elusive to locate!!
Any new insight?
Thanks:D

checking the grounds and running the extra ground is a good start.
Next put a signal light on the output from the ECU to the starter relay

Otherwise sacrifice rubber chicken
Attachment 11285

Wish I had seen this sooner and would have saved you a lot of trouble. There is a transmission lock-out that only lets the starter crank the engine when the auto trans gear lever is Park (or maybe N). Opening and closing (probably slamming it) juggles the switch just enough to start. Try moving the gear selector lever when it won't start... just push it forward and backward a few times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Janius

Wish I had seen this sooner and would have saved you a lot of trouble. There is a transmission lock-out that only lets the starter crank the engine when the auto trans gear lever is Park (or maybe N). Opening and closing (probably slamming it) juggles the switch just enough to start. Try moving the gear selector lever when it won't start... just push it forward and backward a few times.

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The OP initially said:
"very once in a while, my Aveo will not Crank. Now here is the funny part, to get it to Crank and Start, I open and close the back door.
What does that have to do with the issue??"

Regarding your proposed solution, the question remains:
"What does that have to do with the issue??"

That which was formerly known as the neutral safety switch (or equivalent thereof) is a remote possibility, but it doesn't seem to be the most likely cause of the problem.

Check chassis / body ground . Check engine ground .

Wyr
God bless

Well here is the latest update...
Tried moving the shifter back and forth, side to side... no change
Here is what does fix it... When it wont start, I remove the key for 30 seconds. No opening closing doors, I just sit there.
If it does not start (But most of the time it will) I remove the key for another 30 seconds.
The car will then start
I have tried recently not locking the doors, mostly because it has been really cold up here in South Dakota and I don't want the doors to freeze up, but you know what, ever since I have quit locking it, it has NEVER failed to start. Going on a month now of starting ok.
Another coincidence??

you know there is wire bundle that goes from the inside around the firewall by the front fender. Maybe there is something shorting in that bundle.