Chevrolet Spark turbo (1.4t from the Sonic/Cruze)

This'll get the engine-swapping juices flowing...

http://www.gmtunersource.com/media/k...9f5b8056_L.jpg

GM Europe has goosed its A-class Spark city car with the engine from the Sonic / Cruze to act as the pace car for the WTCC series (World Touring Car Championships).

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This spiced version of the Chevrolet's city car, equipped with a 1.4 turbo and 140 hp engine, has been entrusted the key task of leading the pack in the WTCC, as it will be the official leading car in selected events of the series. The Spark WTCC Leading Car will be displayed in public for the first time at the WTCC round in Zolder on 19-20 June.

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source: Chevy builds Cruze-engined Super Spark for WTCC duty — Autoblog also GMTunerSource.com - Chevy Spark Gets Turbo Treatment for WTCC Duty

• In case you forget: the 1.4t is rated for 138 jp / 148 ft-lbs of torque in the Cruze & Sonic. Euro HP numbers show 140 though.
• Curb weight of the Spark is ~1900 lbs

GM has been saying for a while that it's considering bringing the Spark to North America in 2012. Maybe, maybe not. That'll depend mostly on where gas prices go from here, I suspect.

If the proposed "Z" tuner arm of Chevrolet takes off ( a poll and prompting from like-minded members here and on related boards- and then a message sent off to GM? ) would be a way to fit this combination here in the states... wonder how different the electrics/computer engine /trans package is from model to model? As an example the 1.4T/6 speed manual in a Sonic – and then the same power train in a Cruze. I understand the gearing is different between the two.
Nonetheless the package from a Sonic would be fairly appropriate on the Spark ( the gearing in the first three gears might be a bit short since it would be designed for a 500+lb heavier car- (minor alteration could come about by picking a taller wheel/tire combination ). The question would be would it pass emissions/legality in the 50 States? if not the latter- perhaps the former? What are the bore/stroke/head relations between the 1.4 and the optional 1.2 in the Spark?

Steve

thus far have found 1.4T specs: 72.5 mm bore/ 82.6 mm stroke
and 1.2: 69.7 mm bore/ 79 mm stroke
just for fun- the 1.8: 80.5 mm bore/ 88.2 mm stroke

the instructive aspect would be head details, block/transaxle bolt pattern, and block bore spacing/deck height

daewoo is a lot like the european format, where the drivetrains are almost interchangeable.
Since all three of those cars (spark, cruze and sonic) are daewoo. it should be more feasible than we all think. I know the 1.8 ecotec is a "direct" swap for the ecotec aveo. So that might mean if the body harness is the same, the 1.4t is a direct swap for the aveo. As long as the us manufacturer didn't change the pin out or style plugs etc.

From a marketing perspective- so as not to undercut Sonic sales, a "Z"ti Spark w/ 1.4T and 5 speed manual with a slight detune and upper range wheel/ tires in the 14-185/60- or 15- 195/55 ( depending on what the current base/optional wheel/tire range is for the model ( 13" as the base?) would still deliver a desireable pocket rocket that would also be in its own class, one that doesn't inherently cannibalize sales from a hotter Sonic ( though it might draw a standard Sonic package buyer- however- having less features- afive speed instead of 6 and a lower output might mean that only those looking for sportiness with maximum economy and more affordability would buy it instead of a base Sonic- I see room for both- catering to different audiences ).
Opinions? Facts?

Steve

Ok Rabbit, so the feasibility from the technical perspective looks favorable. What about the marketing considerations as I outlined directly above?
Steve

Interesting topic. in a few years after we pay off my wifes corolla, we are buying a truck (98 to 04 crew cab tacoma v6 4x4). If my Aveo is still an ongoing project at that point (not dead yet LOL), this may be something to consider

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Originally Posted by Avezoh

Ok Rabbit, so the feasibility from the technical perspective looks favorable. What about the marketing considerations as I outlined directly above?
Steve

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i dont see gm overcoming themselves.. but look at the audi and bmw line up..
standard a4 ($34) premium a4 (@$40) then the s4 ($50k) then the rs4, which was priced the same as the flagship a8 ($80k).
All the same body.. the a6, s6 and rs6 did the same overlaps and the a8 and s8 as well.

the engine were basically stuffing the "common" largest engine of the next size up car t make the s series. the premium would be the base engine of the next size up.. the rs was always a special tune or turbo version (or v8 turbo) of the s..

i think gm could make it work. but they hve to get out of the huge ass suv is good, cheap cars are bad mentality.

i think gm already failed in that the 240hp cobalt ss was cheaper than the 140 hp cruze. And anything gm does to hop up the aveo its gong to be competing against gti, wrx etc now for the newer price point which it doesn't stand a chance. If it still was against the yaris, hyundai etc. it would be the winner.

Ok the very last point has me confused. Can you clarify competing against the gti, wrx, and the like? Their price point is much higher isn't it? Even if they are lower priced than before- I don't see parity between them and the Sonic/Aveo by any stretch. The R will likely be in the mid 30's. I haven't seen how the other variants stack up but I don't see direct competition between VW in the Golf line-up and the Sonic/Aveo. Perhaps the new Passat and Polo but then GM has the Cruze against the Passat. The lower end of the Cruze range could handle that as well as the upper end Sonic sedan.

Therefore, only a hot Sonic or Spark ( which would then be paired off against the likes of a Polo gti, and a hot Fiesta, Fiat 500, etc. ) would approach those models. The gti I don't see as much of a benchmark unless you consider the largest engine in that- but then you're talking 30k.

Regarding GM's past views and marketing approach- I see that rapidly changing with both the new management team at the top and the spate of new models on the small end of the scale. we have to give them a chance to either sink or swim. Viewing their efforts with skepticism sinks the ship before it leaves port in my view. Not saying your perspective is pessimistic per se, yet I don't see a Sonic customer being a direct cross-reference with a Rabbit or Golf one ( they need to decide which name to stick with– and the mental hopscotch with model names and US spec- look at the shenanigans with US spec Polos- going on at VW suggests all is not well uber alles with the Wolfsburg fleet ).

I'll say this- if looks and price are considerations– the new Sonic has it all over even a G or R gti and definitely trumps the frumpy looking Polo gti and even the edgy ( even ugly- but in a cute, strangely attractive iconic fashion like the original Beetle- or AMC's Gremlin- yes- the Spark is– pardon the pun– igniting my interest– )Spark has that potential.
If you are talking about how much car you get in a wrx or gti- yes- you get mucho mas- but you pay for it too- hence my argument here.


Steve

thats your opinion.It makes sense, but i dont agree with your classification.

A passat is more of a malibu, or impala. Just be size, engine, price. If you think they compare, or someone made that comparison, that is marketing.

I think the aveo is a great $10k car. but when you think the cruze 1.4t 6 speed is @ $20k, i don't think it competes as well in the market. Once you hit the 20k mark, the GTI, WRX, etc are withingreach. and more appealing. Especially with only 140hp. The cobalt SS was the same price with 260hp and LSD. The spark would have my bet as long as it stays under $13-14k with 140hp.

I personally like the polo gti, its styling is very different from chevy, but its also 178 hp out of 1.4l..

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

thats your opinion.It makes sense, but i dont agree with your classification.

A passat is more of a malibu, or impala. Just be size, engine, price. If you think they compare, or someone made that comparison, that is marketing.

I think the aveo is a great $10k car. but when you think the cruze 1.4t 6 speed is @ $20k, i don't think it competes as well in the market. Once you hit the 20k mark, the GTI, WRX, etc are withingreach. and more appealing. Especially with only 140hp. The cobalt SS was the same price with 260hp and LSD. The spark would have my bet as long as it stays under $13-14k with 140hp.

I personally like the polo gti, its styling is very different from chevy, but its also 178 hp out of 1.4l..

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Here's the deal:
my classifications follow this basis:
1) Chevy is GM's VW
2) Buick is GM's Audi
3) Cadillac is GM's BMW

With the above generalizations- this is how models stack up:

Passat- as per VW's edict this is a volume model- therefore future, not present- but future Passats will be "US" ( Mexican built- so North America ) and pricing will begin at $15,000 or so and will be larger than the current car- perhaps because of the pricing and the upcoming size- and I hadn't thought of it this way- it would be the Malibu ( but not Impala- even today the Impala is at the top of the Chevy size heap- as it always was historically- with the exception of the sixties and seventies – when the Caprice supplanted the Impala in the largest size slot ) of the VW line-up.
However, I feel that the Cruze represents the future in a front-wheel or front- wheel based awd platform ( if Chevy expands their rwd model proliferation I see the Malibu or impala or even a resurrected Chevelle nameplate with a Malibu "plain Jane" offshoot ) and that the Cruze competes with the Passat with Buick covering Audi up to a flagship model- with Cadillac picking up the positioning chalice at that point as well as Cadillac going toe to toe with BMW. If GM picks up their rwd platforms than logically the present GS Buick could assume it's true historical role as arwd "gentleman's express" and could line-up against the middle spectrum of sporty Beemer offerings as well as emerging as a true modern muscle car ( a highly sophisticated one- mind you- competing domestically with the Dodge Charger )

Back to the hot hatch segment. The Sonic ne` Aveo no longer is a $10,000 platform, hence the nameplate change for the US- the re-positioning of its market position. The size increase, extra standard features, upgraded materials, Cruze platform powerplants and edgy styling all point to that. True- the same car unveiled months early in Korea and badged as the Aveo- and I don't have its a particulars down other than it is powered by a 1.6l engine– is carrying the older car's torch in name- but then- the market in Korea is considerably different than the one in the US.

Looking long and hard at the new Sonic look at the radical shift in choice and technology represented by some of the following details- as compared to the out-going Aveo: 2 engine choices- one of which is a turbo - 2 six speeds- one auto- the other manual- and a manual 5 speed ( which could be the trans for a possible turbo Spark ) electronic power steering- gps- traction control- anti-lock braking, standard a/c- timing chains and other more sophisticated engine design features. The list goes on. The attention to NVH and maintenance issues means that Chevy has alot of hope and serious effort engineered into the car. The natural competitors encompass Yaris, Fit, Versa ( really no competition there ) and Fiesta. I also include the Polo.. The Polo- particularly the gti is good looking. However it's not breaking any new ground stylistically and I happen to be more partial to the Sonic- even in regular model guise. Personal preference. Agreed that the the Golf as competition is a bit of a stretch.

For the Cruze to truly compete against the Passat Chevy will have to offer a more entry level version- perhaps based on the Eco version. A hatchback version could bridge the Golf gap. We'll see what the future brings. Right now GM has kept on a track that roughly equates to Ford's by offering a new model or two per year and really focusing on what will have to emerge as the bread and butter line- sedans and hatchbacks with efficient powertrains.

Yup, my opinion, backed by facts and a logical perspective of where GM and the Aveo started and has come from to where the focus and placement are now.

Steve

By the way, I'm done with the aforementioned vein of discussion in this thread- more than happy to continue in a separate thread. Interested in discussing the possibilities that stuffing the 1.4t into the Spark represents. The size and weight, and if there were a really low production "tuner" version with at least the full 138 horses ( and the possibility of EPA legal parts and tuning to increase that ) and 6 speed- would- in my view- be every bit the equal of a 39 greater horsepower Polo gti up to roughly 80 mph( above- depending on gearing and rpm capability the 40 hp may allow the turbo-supercharged Polo to walk away from a hot Spark ) by virtue of the weight ( 400 to 700 lbs. )and frontal area ( about 4 inches narrower ) advantage. Othoh the money saved in purchasing such a dream Spark could be applied to legally closing the gap-( headers- different cam timing- freer flow exhaust ).



Steve

In my opinion, if we were talking about a $20k car, i would jump on the WRX

Just a few points steve:

The new passat is going to be built in the vw plant in chattanoga (dont ask me how to spell it) tennessee.

Audi and Bmw are direct competition to each other. So they would compete with the same segments although throughout gms line up.. like (not fine tuned) the jetta, beetle golf against chevy, 3 series and passat, cc against chevy and buick, 7 series and phaeton against cadillac. Truth is in my opinion, you can't compare the US brands with European as they segment differently. Sure audi and vw are the same owner, but they only barely overlap in mid segment. Just recently did they step more into each others boundaries with the Audi A3 and the Phaeton. The phaeton didnt last.. And the a3 is only a AWD gti.

But i agree with you, a 1.4t spark would be the ****. I hope they make it and it doesnt cost out of its market.

I don't think a separate Z version of the Spark- if GM brings it here, and if GM creates a sub-line akin, in concept, to Honda and now VW with their performance models, would "bust out" of the segment as it would be in a separate category- same thing with a Z Sonic, Z Cruze, etc.
What I was alluding to in one of my earlier replies in this segment is whether the 1.8 engine is similar enough, particularly in external dimensions, to apply the T to. Of course, the current turbo is sized for a 1.4, but it does get one's imagination working. The Polo ( the benchmark in this discussion- and really- a "B" segment car with the Spark- courtesy its diminutive size-really knocking hard on the "A" segment ) derives its power from a 1.4 by stacking the huffer technologies- i.e., combining turbocharging AND supercharging- not an inexpensive proposition. In light of the Spark's size and normal engine offerings- the Fiat 500 looks to be the logical competition- with the Spark "zapping" at the heels of larger cars- icing on the cake.

Steve

Of real interest in including the 1.8 in this discussion is if there are shared architectures- in this case the heads or at least the head dimensions- the variable length intake manifold from the 1.8 looks like just the ticket to wake up the power boost on the 1.4 ( with the turbo appearing to sign off around 4900 rpm ) in the upper rev range. Need to get sizing specs and port locations for the 1.8 manifold vs the 1.4.

Steve

You dont need variable length manifolds on turbo cars. that is a NA aspect for keeping power through a larger power band. In a turbo its about maintaining the same amount of boost in all rpms..

if the 1.8 is the ecotec by vauxhall, then it is the same engine as the 1.6 in the aveo now. just bored over.

the 1.4 1.6 and 1.8 from the ecotec family are just bored and stroked versions of the same engine.

A turbo or super charged engine may not "need" vli to provide boost- but VW- the example of combining turbo and supercharging- also employs variable length intakes in concert with variable valve timing to cover the parameters of efficiency and power they seek on their turbo-supercharged powerplants.
Whether these engines- the 1.4 and 1.8 and even the 1.6 are the same as the 1.6 in the Aveo now- I don't know. I do know that the references made to these engines show that NVH, block design, bottom end stiffening, and in the case of the 1.8- the interest of the variable intake are relatively recent developments– and if these engines are simply variations of the same basic block/head configuration then part of the hot-rodding process is combining promising design elements even when they aren't on the same exact engine- in this case the 1.8 intake on the 1.4 turbo engine.
Honda tuners for years have matched different heads with different blocks to combine elements of low- end torque with upper end breathing. That's where I got the idea from. Also looking at the tech specs for where the bulk of power delivery is on the 1.4 T suggested that a variable length intake was a natural, along with re-configuring the cam timing for extending the significant power range. The research effort continues to see if the intake will fit the 1.4T...

Steve