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My daughter has a base model 2004 4 dr Hatchback
One morning it would not start
It turns over OK
The fuel pump does not run
Checked fuse and relay. both OK (by pass relay and can hear the pump run)
The ecm relay is alo OK
It does not have remote door locks so I belive it does not have an imobalizer.
I see that the fuel pump will only run if the ecm tells it too
The fuel gauge does not show any fuel, however it is about 1/4 full
Camshaft turns over.
Any Advice would be appreciated
Colin
I assume you made sure you have spark?
check spark, listen for fuel pump (have someone turn on the car with you ear to the fuel filler). And then if both of those are ok, check for power and clicking at the injectors, and then fuel pressure..
I must admit that I have not checked for Spark yet. I will do that tonight.
The Fuel Pump does run if you by pass the Relay. what I do not see is the relay being energized at all with the ignition on. I will check for Spark.
Should the pump run all the time. or does it pressurize the system then shut off until it starts?
Just checked No Spark at all
also the Fuel Pump relay will not energize at any time.
All fuses have been tested and work!
no spark and no fuel? sounds like it might be ignition switch related, are you sure that everything was checked (like immobilizer, etc).
how are you testing though? start circuit / run are two different things, and you wont have spark or fuel pump "running" in run unless the engine is running as well.. if that makes sense. just because the radio is on doesnt mean everything is firing.
The pump did not work with either the key in run or start, However if the engine has to fire and run during starting, that may be a clue to check the start cuircuit.. Thanks
I will check the ignition switch, I don't believe it has a immobilizer as the keys are standard and it did not come with remote door locks.
Thanks
Checked Ignigiton Switch no fault found with that It appears to output correctly and feeds the relevant circuits.
It does not have a built in mobilizer as their was no sensor where the switch was so I can rule that out. The battery voltage was around 11.5 V and dropped to 9.5V during cranking so I tried jumping it with a known good battery, Still the same.
Could it be the ECM?
Nope. I would guess you to charge or change the battery. With the old battery in, even a boost might not work. You need a good 12.5+ volts at the battery if you want it to start.
this. ecu needs 12v to function.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontarian_frog
Well I guess it's another trip to the Car shop during the week. Perhaps the Minnesota winter played it's toll on the Battery. I was thinking it was enough as at that voltage it had been turning the engine over a while while I have been checking things over.Many thanks for the advice, I will let you all know.
I purchased a brand new battery and made sure it was fully charged, Turns over much faster, but still does not fire up.
I will check to see if the Fuel Pump Relay activates at any time during the start period. As I mentioned before if I jumper the relay contacts I can make the pump run. It is if the ECU never tells it to.
let us know about the relay, have you checked for fuel pressure or spark?
I had Checked for spark and fuel pressure the other week. I haven't physicly checked the pressure, but as the fuel pump relay never even tries to run at all at any stage from ignition on to start I am presuming that I have no Pressure. Now that I have a good battery I will run the same tests again.
I have been going through checking the Power from the ignition points from and to fuses and everything seemed fine their
My Next step was to check all the grounds making sure they were all good. Where are they all located on the 1600 engine? I found the one next to the Battery on the drivers side on the inner fender but I presume their are more.
Just Bought a power probe III and got it delivered last night. What a great tool, sure beats a regular DVM.
Regards
Colin
Just some other items that may help identify the problem
The fuel gauge reads empty although I know it's at least 1/3 full and the Mil Light Never comes on when the ignition is turned on
Both ECM Fuses are OK. Could the low voltage have damaged the ECU?
It is raining pretty bad out tonight and as the car is out side, going to give any more diagnoses a miss till tomorrow.
Still Will not runFuel pump Relay will not energize at any timeNo SparkNo Fuel Gauge reading although tank 1/2 fullNo Check engine lightNo Fault codesI am going to change the computer,
the CEL does not come on at all, even in just the key one position before starting the car?
No I don't see it at any point, Thats why I am thinking of the ECU.
Thanks, Colin
Did you check ALL the fuses? inside and outside? relays?
Yes Both Fuse boxes. I Think It May have been damaged when the battery voltage was too low, Somewhere I heard that these could get damaged if they were tried to be started where the battery was flat/low voltage
I downloaded the manuals and traced the cables from Battery via fuses back to the ECM.
rereading the thread, it "seems" the ecu is not signaling the fuel pump to allow the car to start, if the fuses are all good, the CEL isn't coming on, and still no fuel, i would suspect the ecu too. Before spending the money, i would verify power at the harness on the ecu, and then check for voltage on the signal wire coming out of the ecu for the fuel pump. (since you have the manuals)
I think pull a plug off one of the sensors to see if I could trigger a check engine light before replacing the ECM. A bad crank sensor would cause you to not have fuel or spark and I've heard of a few cases where it prevented the fuel pump from priming. Not sure I'd recommend pulling the CKPS plug until your pretty sure that's it though....you could end up with the P1336 code and the trip to the dealer that goes with it.
Wondering if you've had any resolution with this issue. My wife has the same car and she experienced the "no start" issue yesterday morning. Turns over strong but acts like it's out of gas even though it has half a tank.
Car is still dead, I bought a Spare ECU off ebay and still the same results.
I had no time at the weekend, But I intend to try the sensors as suggested and also the Harness at the fuse box to see if the problem the distribution block
to reiterate, did you check the fuel pressure in the rail? put your finger on each injector (while cranking) to feel if they are clicking? Have you checked spark? mist the wires and retry? mist the coil pack and try again?
If you have done all of that, do it again. The battery is new, the car cranks to speed correct?
I've tried everything you've tried, plus more. I'm having the exact same problem. No gas or spark. My shop had performed an engine swap on it, and it ran fine at first. It was taken for a test drive, and about 1/4 of a mile down the road it died, and that's what led up to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by MNColin
If I jump the relay for the fuel pump, I get gas. Hooked it up to an OBD2 scanner and it said "Not Equipped" when it comes to the ECU. My next step would have been replacing the ECU, but considering that didn't help you, I'm having second thoughts. Did an all over check of grounds and connections, and checked all fuses/relays, to no avail. Did you ever figure out what was wrong with yours? Thanks in advance.
I've had the same problem. I tried messing with the ECU by jumping the ground to the body. and it worked. fuel pump back to normal.