My first problem! (Engine won't crank - lights dim)

[Avezoh]

=D> Car will bump start ( Aveo 5 with 5 speed - 2008 model 26,666 miles- yeah- I know- at least that's better than 66,666 miles...) but with three known good batteries that make all the lights bright, etc. as soon as I shove in the clutch to bypass the neutral safety switch ( or whatever they are called on new cars these days ) and switch the key to the start position I hear the juice buzz down, hear a click, the buzzer sounds anemic and the interior lights go dim. Also, the icon for electrical ( same as the icon inside the fuse box ( looks like a section view of a tire with tread and exclamation mark in the center ) stays continuously illuminated in the speedo cluster. It started with trying to start it yesterday and the light was intermittent. Managed to bump start the car and get it home. Tested the battery in it as well as two batts I have on hand for my hobby cars. The problem seems to be on the positive side of the battery circuit. Perhaps the 100 amp fuse that is part of the positive cable? I also switched out relays and fuses in the fuse block that looked like they might be part of the starting/running circuit ( like the ignition 1 and 2 fuses and the "main" relay. No change. So what are the possibilities? Thanks ahead of time.

Steve

[petrified.rabbit]

the tire with exclamation point is your tpms light, its to tell you the tire pressure is low.

sounds like a bad starter? is that the click, or is it in the dash, then relay? Most things "power off" during start like the radio, lights etc. But depending where the click is that would be your problem.

your still under warranty?

[petrified.rabbit]

wait, buzzer? there is a buzzer?

[Avezoh]

wait, buzzer? there is a buzzer?

Yes, I left the door was open or the seatbelt unfastened while trying to start so I'm referring to the warning buzzer that is usually strident and irritating being reduced to a mosquito's buzz once the key is rotated to the start position. At the same time the interior light goes from bright to a weak hospital yellow and the lights in the dash cluster start dimming/ blinking. On recall there really isn't a "click" per se as with older cars when the solenoid isn't pushing the starter armature/gear out to engage the flywheel teeth as much as the buzzer goes to a sickly little bleep and it's clear the battery amperage is being sucked all the way down, like there is a giant short in the system.
As to the icon for the TPMS why is the same icon on the inside of the fuse cover, and I don't mean in there next to a reference, like "TPMS" but centered on the inside of the cover? At least, that's how I recall it. Nonetheless, I initially thought that's what the symbol meant, low tire pressure, so I inflated the tires from a measured ( warm ) 32 psi to 42 psi. No change. So, the simultaneous problem of the juice suck-down upon attempting to crank the engine and the trouble icon in the dash pod led/leads me to believe there is an interconnected problem, a common bad/short circuit. Perhaps not and they are two unrelated defects that happened to occur once the bad starter, bad clutch pedal relay, or whatever in the starting circuit is the problem drew down current and there's a short which has illuminated the TPMS sensor light? I don't yet have a Technical Service Manual for the car, or even an owners manual. I can see it would be nice to have either or both.

Yes, the car is still under the bumper to bumper warranty that would likely cover this issue. Was wondering if this is a typical occurrence in such a low mileage car? Or if someone had had a related problem and what caused it? The last thing I want is someone simply throwing parts at the problem without true troubleshooting of the cause and why. The whole point to buying the car is to have a point A to point B and back again ride that is a jump in and start affair. I already have two hobby cars!

Steve

[petrified.rabbit]

Lmk with the buzzer I was thinking you might have somehow enacted the immobilizer. I don't know anyone who actually has yet nbut it cuts the power to the starter. At least that's the information I found about the aveo immobilizer. I'm still not buying we have an actual immobilizer.

From the sounds of it you your tpms light is on because you are still at the wrong pressure. Too low or too high it will be on. Or if you don't have the factory wheels, no sensors, one bad sensor or so
Many other issues with them. It's a waste but federal government knows best. The pressure has to be within 1-2 lbs either way of the sticker in the door.

The short to ground fel of the starting circuit sounds like the starter relay or the starter itself though. But that's hard to say as I don't have the car. But you are not experiencing a common problem. If that is what you are looking for.

[MetroMPG]

Might be worth a try rapping the starter/solenoid with a hammer.

See: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2421621

[Avezoh]

Thanks for the replies and the link. After thinking about the symptoms it likely is very similar to the problems covered in the Honda link with the starter being the culprit as it's clear the problem is a grounding/short issue and the starter in any car draws alot of amps. If those amps are grounded ( short ) I'd imagine the symptoms listed are consistent with that. It could be the relay but if that shorted I'd think the car would mimic the situation when you don't shove the clutch in, nothing. Although if an intermittent short through the relay maybe what's occurring would be in line with a bad starter depending how the circuit is wired. With older cars you usually get warning symptoms with various components/circuits going bad like hard cranking/slow cranking for starter. With later batteries that operate at high efficiency until they suddenly don't have sufficient juice deliver, to high torque starters that wind out until they ground out/brushes don't contact the armature any more. It works great one second, sayanara the next... Used to older cars "warning" me before something fails. I'll take her in for warranty repair and see what they say. Thanks all.

Steve

[MetroMPG]

Well, post back when you find out what it was.

[daug1502]

For anyone that wants to keep their TPMS when running aftermarket tires.

Some dealers will reprogram the tpms on your vehicle for the pressure specifications of your new tires. When changing tires and rim sizes, the recommended inflation pressure may change as well. If you want to keep a functional TPMS, then talking to your local dealers while in the buying process would be a very good idea. If the pressure is close enough, the tpms may not even require any dealer changes, just simply relearn it at the new pressure, and you are good to go. I'm going to look more into this over the week, and post about costs, and etc.

A bit off topic, but good info.

[Avezoh]

I'll let you know, scheduled to go in on Monday. The tires/wheels are 175/65/14 and were on the car when i bought it three weeks ago. The sensor light came on at the exact moment I first experienced the starting problem. About 99.9% sure the sensor(s) or sending unit went haywire with whatever is causing the giant amp draw. Maybe the fuse for the sensors went bad because of a short. We'll see.
Steve